TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 8 °C Sunday 26 May, 2013

Ireland won’t scrap Summer Time – unless we get EU support

Alan Shatter tells the Dáil that Ireland would need the approval of all 27 EU members if it wanted to keep the clocks forward.

Image: Jens Meyer/AP

IRELAND WILL NOT be able to consider scrapping the idea of ‘Summer Time’ and keeping its clocks an hour forward – unless it gets the support of every other EU member state to do so.

Justice minister Alan Shatter told the Dáil this afternoon that a European Union directive issued in 2000 required member states to change their clocks at the same time every year – so that the relative time differences remained static throughout the union.

Shatter was responding to an issue raised by Fine Gael backbencher David Stanton, who had asked Shatter what provisions could be made to ensure that daylight extended longer into the day after winter.

“The Deputy will appreciate we must consider what is happening in the UK, not least because they are in the same time zone as us and are our largest trading partner,” Shatter said.

Westminster’s House of Commons last year passed the second stage of a Daylight Savings Bill, which would call on the British government to analyse whether it would be more economically and culturally beneficial to scrap the system of advancing the clocks during the summer.

If that report found that there was merit to dropping the system – which originates in modern times to the First World War, when daylight was considered a precious commodity – then the UK would be obliged to carry out a three-year trial of scrapping it.

While that bill remains shelved in Westminster, however, Shatter said officials from his department had met its sponsor Rebecca Harris MP in February to discuss how the move may affect Ireland.

In particular, Shatter said, officials were anxious that the time observed in the Republic was not different to that in operation in Northern Ireland.

“No discussion has taken place with EU colleagues, as plans are not at an sufficiently advanced stage,” Shatter said.

Under the European directive – which had been issued on an annual basis before being made permanent in 2001 – each member state moves their time back and forth at precisely the same moment.

So, while Ireland will move its clocks back an hour this Sunday morning at 2am, central Europe will do likewise at 3am local time – i.e. precisely the same moment.

Other countries are also debating whether to scrap the summer time switch – in Russia, the system will be abandoned forever once the clocks go back an hour this weekend.

Would you favour scrapping the system of Summer Time?


Poll Results:







Read next:

Comments (46 Comments)

  • There is no summer in Ireland

    Reply
  • jrbmc 26/10/11 #

    Its a pitty the topic isn’t about putting the clock going back , I reckon about 6 years would do it :-)

    Reply
  • Its a ploy to introduce a daylight tax ,cunning bastards.

    Reply
  • They should scrap Thursdays, I hate Thursdays and the Tuesday after a bank holiday Monday.
    Leave the hour alone I’m only after learning the whole “spring forward, fall back”
    So to finalize Thursdays are gone along with the Tuesday after a bank holiday and were keeping the current daylight saving system.

    Reply
  • is he going to go on record and promise us a sumer for next year, and can it be for more than one day. someone should also bring that to the EU states. and see if all 27 vote on it…

    Reply
  • There isn’t much that would bring me on the streets but robbing our summer evenings would. If we abandon changing the clocks we should stick to GMT +1 ie summer time. What good is an hour when you are in bed. And travelling to work in the dark is a small price to pay to be able to have an hour of daylight after work. The vast majority of people don’t walk to work anyway, also the vast majority of people work indoors under lights. Let the industries who work outdoors and depend on daylight change their hours in the winter if it’s that important for them.

    Reply
  • Daire 26/10/11 #

    “David Stanton, who had asked Shatter what provisions could be made to ensure that daylight extended longer into the day after winter.”

    All he has to do is wait until after, Oh, I dunno, December the 22nd say, and Lo and behold ! Daylight will start extending longer into the day. Like magic. Every year. Though Fine Gael will probably claim credit for it now. And in the unlikely event that it DOESN’T happen then they can just claim it’s because of something FF and the greens agreed to before they were booted out of de guberment. Win win. They’re sly characters those backbenchers.

    Reply
  • In fact this one hour shift is only the thin end of the wedge. Some of these Tory MPs have plans to turn the clocks back to the 19th Century…;-)

    Reply
  • In fairness, you have to co-ordinate.

    Things like airport slots and any form of international air and rail timetabling become impossible if you go it alone.

    The US unilaterally switched the dates for going on and off summertime and that has presented enough problems. e.g flight connections becoming impossible at certain times of year.

    It probably is more important in continental Europe with the level of international rail connections they have, but it has some effect here.

    Personally, I’d switch onto CET so that we get an hour extra brightness in the evening, whether summer or winter. Sunlight when I’m still in bed is wasted, when the whole evening is dark.

    Reply
  • Each time zone occupies 15 degrees of latitude corresponding to 1/24th of 360 degrees.15 degrees is angle in the sky that the sun travels in one hour.As the westernmost point of Ireland is only 10 degrees west of Greenwich,which corresponds to just 40 minutes solar time.(ie.The sun rises in Kerry just 40 minutes after it rises in London.) it would be stupid for us to be on a different time zone to Britain .

    Reply
  • CJ Ryan 26/10/11 #

    We are in the GMT time zone. Why can’t we just stay in GMT all year round? (Winter Time = GMT and Summer Time=GMT).

    It’s the position of the earth on its axis to the sun which affects daylight hours after all.

    Unless politicians think they can move the Earth’s orbit as well.

    Reply
    • Because in Summer it would get bright at 4:30am, but get dark in the evening just after around 9:30pm.

      There are two benefits of moving to summer time
      1) The sun is up when people are awake and can be out and about
      2) There’s lower energy usage because the period of time when people are awake with the lights on is reduced.

      Reply
    • CJ Ryan 26/10/11 #

      Rubbish!

      It would mean darker mornings in the dead of winter. Dawn isn’t till after 7am in December. Sticking with GMT+1 would mean Dawn wouldn’t start till after 8 with sunrise close enough to 9pm.

      People would have to get up in the dark and travel to work/school in low light conditions. Lights would definitely be switched on.
      So energy consumption is probably negated by that.

      Reply
    • If you done some research you would find it is you that is talking rubbish. One of the major benefits of GMT+1 and GMT+2 is the reduction in energy consumption.

      http://www.lighterlater.org/benefits.html

      Reply
    • CJ Ryan 26/10/11 #

      Ha.

      Maybe if people stopped watching X-factor and turned off their TV’s and computers you’d see quite a reduction in energy consumption as well.

      Reply
  • handy to have clocks go back in October … so school kids don’t have to travel to school in the dark…….. (maybe more reasonable back in the day when most school kids walked to school)…..

    Reply
  • EM 26/10/11 #

    Do what suits us and let the UK follow suit if they want to.

    Reply
  • Up until the late 19th century every local area had it’s own time based on local sunrise.Then the railways arrived.To make timetables which were understandable,especially going east-west in America,time zones were introduced.Old folks complained that the “new time” went faster.
    We still have the saying “Going like the new time”.

    Reply
  • Result is that the Greenwich Mean Time in Greenwich will not actually be the time in Greenwich!!

    Reply
  • Eh…we don’t actually have “Summer Time” in Ireland. That is a very common misconception. Unlike the rest of the EU, we have Winter Time and Standard Time; the rest of the EU has Standard Time and Summer Time. We are not in the same time zone as the UK, although we do keep the same time. The rest of the EU moves their clocks forward one hour at spring time from that country’s standard time zone and into that country’s summer time zone. E.g. Britain changes from GMT (UTC±0) in Winter to BST (British Summer Time; UTC+1) in Summer. France goes from CET (Central European Time; UTC+1) in Winter to CEST (Central European Summer Time; UTC+2) in Summer. In other words, the EU (except Ireland) has its standard time in Winter. Ireland’s standard time zone is in Summer. We are not in GMT. We have WET (Western European Time; UTC±0) in Winter and IST (Irish Standard Time; UTC+1) in Summer.

    Reply
    • Completely correct, Brian.

      The relevant legislation here dates from 1967 or 1968 (I’m too lazy to check)

      And I’m glad that you took the time to type out all of that rather than me:)

      Reply
  • I think this article and also minister shatter by the sounds of it somewhat misses the point of the UK “Daylight Saving Bill 2010-11″ what it proposes is “The Bill would require the Government to conduct a cross-departmental analysis of the potential costs and benefits of advancing time by one hour for all, or part of, the year.” They are investigating the possibility of moving the clocks to GMT+1 in the winter and possibly GMT+2 in the summer. Basically giving an extra hour of daylight in the evenings all year round when compared to the current system. The sun wouldn’t be at it’s highest point at 12 noon but the available hours of daylight would more closely align with peoples hours of activity.

    Reply
  • ….and lose the essential extra hour in bed after the heaviest night of the Jazz weekend? No way boy!

    Reply
  • Um. If you vote “Yes, don’t bother putting them back in October”, are you really voting for “I don’t actually know what Daylight Savings Time means?”…

    Reply
  • Or lets be like a normal country for once and think for ourselves. It’s not that hard people.

    Reply
  • I’m not 100% sure but I thought European Directives were not binding in their entirety on the member state; only European Regulations were! So why the consultation with the EU.

    Reply
    • Colm – You’ve gotten the two mixed up. A regulation is binding, but is also self-executing – it’s basically a law that applies to all 27 member states.

      A directive is an order which requires each country to achieve a particular result, but leaves it up to each country to achieve that goal by its own means.

      Reply
  • With the state the European States are in at the moment, we should avoid anything rash! Uniformity hasn’t worked so well for the Euro Zone thus far!

    Reply
  • 26/10/11 #

    who are the shams voting to not to put clocks back in october? thats an extra hours kip in winter, sorely needed! I think the current system makes sense… and why the hell should we copy uk?

    Reply
  • It’s actually been *proven* that putting the clocks back an hour is bad for our health and more dangerous for when it gets to days like now. Come on, feck the EU, just, lets do our thing, as an *independent* nation… right??

    Reply
  • Erratum: for latitude read LONGITUDE!
    mea culpa.

    Reply
  • Mos 26/10/11 #

    That’s just messing up the system were used to and it’s immaturely pretending that they can pretend to control planet earth!

    Reply

Add New Comment