is it not 26k starting for the 1st 2 years.??? plus 2k extra Graduate nursing jobs to be made available, correct me if im wrong. im pretty certain its gona be better then what I get after I graduate.. Id fund it odd if people became a nurse for the mobey anyway

sorry 1k graduate nursing jobs

26K average which includes overtime payments.
The basic rate is 21-22K I think.

page 11 in the below link says the median salary for all graduates is €24-26k, will the new nursing graduates earn more or less than this.

http://ahecs.ie/wp-content/uploads/Salary-survey-2012-uploaded-sept-2012.pdf

The starting salary will be 21-22K as far as I can tell.

So we should just work for free..u don’t work for the money no?

@ Sean you fu***ing idiot who study four years and enter a job to work for free get real, I bet you don’t even have a job

@paul mc kenna…spot on comment, anyone with a job in this bitter, divided country is now fair game for those with chip on their shoulders…Nurses work incredibly hard and the ridiculous comment that nurses don’t graduate for the money is beyond belief…we all graduate for the money…it depends what course you graduate from whether that be medicine, law, nursing, accountancy whatever! There’s nurses gonna be starting on 21k after four tough years while there’s people in arranged separations with two kids getting every benefit under the sun (dole, single mothers, children’s allowance, back to school, free rent, no mortgage, medical card, fuel allowance, etc, etc, etc) and who’ve never worked a day in their lives, these people are being defended by Sinn Fein, ULA every time the government wants to trim these exorbitant benefits….the working poor of this country, the regular tax paying family with combined gross income of 80-100k, with no medical card, no benefits at all, with mortgages and college fees to pay are hanging on, just! Those on benefits are going on sun holidays, have the 42inch plasma and ipads, medical cards, help from SVP etc, I see it going on…it’s a scandal and I feel the nurses should stand firm…constant raping of those who are working or willing to work has to stop…middle Ireland footing the bill for the layabouts and the crooks

David Well said

James, what I’ve noticed is that the newer nurses arent as jaded as the older ones, and seem to work harder to make their name..To me, the regular doctors, nurses and midwifes in the HSE should not have their wages reduced or their contracts altered as they give enough

While that may be the case, new nurses and midwives are capable of doing the exact same work, they are fully qualified, full member of the team. Asking them to work for anything less than their peers is scandalous.

Nurses work on an incremental salary. New entrants will always be on a lower salary than those already working. Even more so with the absence of recruitment over the past few years.

James, experience is recognised with increment payments, newly qualified never got the same pay, but did get the same conditions , this is about an eroding of nurses conditions of employment, which is the reason unions need wake up and earn their inflated pay

Absolutely – agreed, but this cut isn’t on those scales. This cut is new – it’s a level under what graduates from last year received.

James, first off the level of responsibility of a staff nurse who has been staffing 15 years would not be the same as a newly qualified nurse. How many newly qualified nurses that you know would be the senior nurse in charge of a ward, and as such would be left running an entire ward on any given day? The fact of the matter is the workload on a ward would be delegated according to the skill mix and experience of the staff who are on duty. At the end of the day, while €22k may represent a drop in the old starting salary, there are other graduates in other disciplines who’s earnings under Jobsbridge is the grand sum of €188 plus €50. The starting salary of a band 5 staff nurse in the NHS is £21,176, so I don’t know where the figure of £26k comes from? I also heard the IMNO stating that this scheme is replacing permanent posts. I would also like to know how this scheme is replacing permanent posts, considering newly qualified nurses don’t start off being permanent!

Hi Ann, I’m not referring to senior nurses, as obviously they do move up in terms of responsibility.
My point was that a general nurse is doing the exact same job as a general nurse who is on the job longer.
In relation to the lower scale – pay scales exist to allow for advancement as career progression occurs.

Ann, extra responsibility was recognised with increments, pay for new entrants therefore was less as it stood.

same with new teachers no one is forcing them to take up these positions if the feel too hard done by then it’s their own decision.
what has to be realised is the well is dry and there isn’t the money out to keep HSA in the custom it’s become use to.
the only real way to pay all these nurses would be increase taxes as CPA has sealed cuts else where.

Tom the well is dry , let’s start with politicians extras, not their basic pay, then bonus payed to HSE management, then look at real numbers doing office work ( many are needed but everyone says there are too many), now then nurses pay can be looked at , why always the frontline first , why oh why

Regardless, there are still going to be graduates (Irish and overseas trained) who’ll be more than willing to work for €22k. Out of interest aside from holding a day of protest, does this mean that nurses who are on the old salary scale are going to go out on strike in support of their junior colleagues? Are they going to refuse to work with new graduates who may be employed on the lower entry scale? At the end of the day everybody has a choice! They can either stay in Ireland and get two years post-qualification experience and head abroad after that, or they can head abroad after they qualify and get their post-qualification experience in another country.

Out of interest, does anybody ever start to question what they exactly got for all the duties that they willingly assumed under the extended role of the nurse – was it really worth it?

Cynical Ann, yes I would support striking on this issue, yes the extended role did increase our role without real improvements in conditions, proper showers near wards for staff are in short supply for nurses and care assistance, but office staff have them, go figure

In saying that, this could be a good thing. (I’m going to play devils advocate).
Most post graduate nursing program’s require that the nurse has 2-3 years post registration experience.
It may be a thing that more will consider a return to education and up skill to higher levels of nursing (whether advanced practitioner, or becoming qualified in 2 streams of nursing or prescriber or whatever) after completing this contract.
That would be good as higher qualified nurses are only a new phenomenon in Ireland, but somehow I doubt that that’s the reality behind this cut.

Unfortunately Shay it comes from years of experience. It’s something that always stuck with me from my days of training (overseas), where we had a discussion about why we were assuming all these duties under the extended role of the nurse – and whether we were willingly taking on the duties that was traditionally done by doctors to become more recognised as a “profession”. I guess I am cynical, but then again I remember the days where we went out on strike (think it was pay related) and despite paying union dues the INO (as it was then called) didn’t even have a strike fund. Add to that the fact that we were providing emergency cover, which totally defeated the whole purpose of a strike, and typically enough that strike had zero impact, because there were still nurses who were on the wards caring for patients. I also remember the days where the INO went on strike because of overcrowding in ED’s, and 10+ years, our ED’s are still in a meltdown. I just don’t think that the HSE or the DoHC takes nurses all too seriously. I said it back then, our fundamental mistake back then was not threatening an all out strike without providing emergency cover!

Ann, I remember it well, true

Like Ann was saying above there are other graduates who are looking at taking up a 9 month internship which will not pay the colour of 21 thousand. I’m a social care graduate who is about to start an internship for which I will receive the grand total of 183 a week. I wish the government would commit to adding 2000 social care workers at 21 thousand, and I would happily take up a position.

@nessa, this is after their internship when they ate fully qualified, they are payed less than the minimum wage during internship, please read the article

And I am talking about taking up an internship after qualifying with a degree. The same way these nurses that the hse want to hire will be qualified. have you herd of jobs bridge internships for people who are graduated. These are a nine month program which pay for me 182. I am a fully qualified social care worker (four year degree as well as 9 months of college placements) and I am starting on of these internship. So what I am saying is that plenty of other graduates would love this opportunity which is offered to nurses. So to let you know I have read the article but you did not read my comment clearly. So please read up in jobs bridge internships for graduates.

50euro on- top of social welfare, for people to gain experience, sorry not the same, the jobs are there for nurses already, they just want to pay them less, what your talking about is supervised work, qualified nurses are independant in the care of their patients and must take full responsibility for what happens on their shift

Please don’t think I’m out to get you , if there are jobs and you do the work , you should be payed the same as you colleagues

I am about to start an internship where I will have sole responsibility for the individuals in my care also. So I think you are mis informed about the responsibility level while on an internship. It varies from job to job. I am also saying that I would love the government to implement 2000 social care jobs paid at 21 thousand so I would not have to do an internship. But I presume you are going to find fault with me saying that plenty of social care workers would love this opportunity.

Nessa, no fault with your view, disagree that you would be happy to be payed less than you colleagues for the same level of responsibility, especially when there is no reason to expect that they will ever pay you the correct pay scale , if there is work it’s reasonable to expect equal pay and conditions ,

Ann you should swap over to siptu if you want your strike pay

There are not that many graduate nurses unemployed. In fact, most are either gone abroad or about to go abroad (which I would highly recommend), or are doing agency work which is far more beneficial financially than the current situation with the HSE.

That’s a great post and i agree with you! I have a family member that’s a nurse and her work load is unbelievable! and she is really dedicated to her job. I stand behind your protest, you deserve better wages so don’t let this slide! and for people in this country, hypocrites!

Kinsale,
as a nurse of 20 years experience i salute you for what you are doing.
You should not be treated like this though.
You should be supported for you are the nurses who are the future of this country. You and the people who work with you are the ones we depend upon. And because you are devoted these prats think they can take advantage of that devotion.
Selling out nurses like you is like selling out the future of the health system – it should be the last place these HSE bustards look for cuts.
I have seen governments in three countries now try and pull off this kind of bullshit. They do not get the savings they are looking for and the health system – the people who give up so much to try and make it work – and the public – all suffer.
The only ones who profit are the arsehooles who implement this sort of nonsense, and the agencies who pick up the pieces.
The HSE is selling out our country and this arseholery must stop.

Paddy that was the old Labour Party , my how they have changed

They got away with it already with Teachers, Consultants & Civil Service so they are going to do it with everybody else. It was the unions who let them away with it in the first place – too late to cry foul now.

Nurses whinging again. If they don’t like the pay, don’t do the job. Nurses seem to think their job is the hardest, most important job on the planet.
All jobs are tough, all jobs are important. Get over yourselves.

That’s correct, you read right. The HSE can do what it likes, it’s not the first time they’ve redacted contracts this year. They did so with Intern NCHD’s in June.

That’s hardly legal? Or do they just issue with notice of the change. Either accept or leave?

Pretty sure it means they should stop giving out any further contracts, rather than cancelling/revising previous ones, something which has already been mentioned as illegal.

Apologies, yes Paul, it looks like they’re being discontinued – not redacted.
Still disgraceful.

It’s only illegal if Ur a highly paid incompetent banker with an inflatted pension! Different law for the rest of us.

Just heard on Drivetime RTE: old contracts issued to new graduates are to be terminated.
Yup, sounds like good ole HSE!

Grand job. Off to the UK to join my class mates so.

It’s good experience – I left after I qualified. Only back this year – 12 years later. Broadens the mind, good luck whatever you do.

Agreed! There are protests planned (that I’ve heard – I’m not part of a union!), and I will be out in support.

They are also looking at a possible legal challenge under the Employment Equality Act. I’d say the new teachers will follow that with interest if it happens.

I don’t see many teachers coming our in support for their newly qualified colleagues, so I’m assuming incumbent nurses will show the same indifference!

Why do you assume foreign nurses will want to put up with worse pay and conditions than another country offers?
Do you think foreign nurses are stupid?

Dave your a rock of common sense

The pay and conditions although “worse” may still be better than where they come from.

Nelly, existing foreign nurses without children are leaving for Australia and Canada , those with children are looking at increases in collegee fees , and reduction on children’s allowance, I’d be amazed if the HSE can fill these jobs from abroad

Don’t get me wrong. I think nurses do a fantastic job and should be paid well. I just think that asking newly qualified nurses to boycott these positions could be a bad move.

The nurses union needs to back them 100% . Asking them to boycott is a cop out from the union.

Agreed , of course the unions may already know that many new graduates will boycott these jobs, and this I’s a cynical exercise to make the union look good when they do

Nellysroom
Why do you think foreign nurses will not just go to other countries that will pay them better? Why would they choose Ireland over the UK or Australia or many other countries?
Why not just pay the nurses their proper wage. Now THERE is a solution

What did the HSE do the last time they faced a crisis in recruiting nurses? They headed over to places like India and the Philippines and they held a major recruitment drive, and it’s going to happen this time around as well!

Dave , see Anne’s comment.

Recruitment drives ..

And what do you think happened to all of those nurses who they recruited? (I am a nurse and was there when they came and left )They were treated badly by the health boards of the time so they took off to the UK and other countries, and why shouldnt they? . Again Nellysroom and Anne – do you think nurses are stupid? Why do you think nurses would come to Ireland for worse conditions

Ann India and the Philippines had their go, they now know people over here, and I can safely say their not recommending Ireland as a place to go

Shay in that case they’ll just head off and rape another poor country of professionals thus adding to their brain drain….it’s been happening the lenght and breath of the world!

Of course I don’t think nurses are stupid. Just saying a boycott by Irish nurses will not stop the positions being filled by nurses who need work.

Cynical again Ann, however there’s a good chance your right

is there an edit function for comments my grammar and spelling are awfull

Because we’ve already taken one?

Spot on Rory. Should all graduates refuse work if more favorable historical conditions are not offered?

Richard , no further pay cut for me, until politicians extras are gone, management manage and not just the HSE, they supply showers for all nurses within the wards they work, they listen to staff about ways to reduce costs, and the management leave there posts to fill in when the wards are short, and I don’t just mean nursing management, they can help patients to toilets and assist at mealtimes to free up my time

Daniel, civil engineers did well in the good times, infrastructure seems a good idea , but they were also part of the bad planning of our cities, would you as a recently qualified be expected to take responsibly like nurses, or would a senior civil engineer be the fall guy

Richard starting pay isn’t the same , increments recognise experience and pay increased accordingly. This isn’t about nurses only, why should we be the only group ask to reduce our pay for junior staff when other groups payed by the HSE aren’t , this is an attack on frontline staff, and a funeral group, by a cowardly government and management