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Dublin: 8 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Pee Flynn’s Late Late interview was “underhand” says Gilmartin’s son

The developer’s son says his father was vindicated by Mahon and should get more credit for exposing corruption.

Tom Gilmartin in 2004.
Tom Gilmartin in 2004.
Image: Haydn West/PA Archive

THE SON OF DEVELOPER Tom Gilmartin says he feels his father has been “fully vindicated” by the Mahon Tribunal report, but hopes that he gets more credit for exposing the political corruption investigated by Mahon.

He also described attempts to discredit his health or evidence as “scurrilous”, calling an interview given by former minister Pádraig Flynn to the Late Late Show in 1999 was “underhand”.

The Tribunal found that Pádraig Flynn had “wrongly and corruptly” sought a IR£50,000 payment from the developer in 1989.

Thomas Gilmartin Jr told RTÉ’s This Week that it was important for people to note that while the Tribunal said Flynn had corruptly received the payment, it did not say his father had corruptly made the payment.

Explaining the transaction, the developer’s son said that his father had discovered that his projects were being blocked by politicians and that individuals such as Liam Lawlor were standing in his way. He was told that the only way to proceed was to pay money to Fianna Fáil, and eventually he did.

“In the end, in what amount to extortion, he was told that he’d lose everything or he’d pay money to Fianna Fáil,” Gilmartin Jr said.

The IR£50,000 payment to Flynn was intended for the party, but the Tribunal found that Flynn had used the payment for his personal benefit.

The Late Late Interview

The developer’s son said that his father had “sometimes felt despondent about whether the truth would ever come out”. He had been unsure about cooperating with the Tribunal but after meeting with the judges found them sincere and decided to return to Ireland from England to provide evidence. It was Gilmartin who first drew the Tribunal’s attention to Frank Dunlop.

Asked about the Pee Flynn interview on the Late Late Show (see video below) which reportedly drove him to proceed with his Tribunal evidence, Gilmartin Jr said that his father was “very angry” to hear Flynn make dismissive comments about his health and his wife’s health:

He took it as a personal slight. He believed that the implication was that ‘he’s not well and he’s out of sorts’ [meaning] that he wasn’t telling the truth and that there was something wrong with him.

Gilmartin Jr also spoke about the intense pressure on his father from the media and politicians during the Tribunal. He said that Bertie Ahern’s barristers has quizzed him on his mental health, “which was of course reported the next day. ”

Pressure on Gilmartin throughout the Tribunal was extremely unpleasant for his father and for the family, he said, particularly because they could not speak out while the Tribunal was underway.

“I felt that the attitude on the part of some people was to make an example of him – to show ‘this is what happens if you speak out’ – you’ll be vilified and your credibility will be crushed by a machine that includes the government and business and certain sections of the media,” he said.



(Video captured by Gavin Sheridan of GavinsBlogTheStory and Storyful; uploaded to YouTube by AssassinorErrandBoy)

Read TheJournal.ie’s Mahon  Tribunal coverage in full >

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Comments (42 Comments)

  • Fair play Mr. Gilmartin. A returned successful emigrant wishing to invest in his homeland thrown into the mire of oirish officialdom. Despite everything THEY threw at you and your family you held yourself true! You’ve been vindicated Sir and I wish you and family the best. A real Irish hero!

    Reply
    • Indeed William.
      And another hero not mentioned too often – James Gogarty. Described as a ‘feisty old curmudgeon’ by Sam Smith a man of sabre wit who should never be forgotten:

      (With apologies to Percy French)

      The Flood Tribunal in Dubbelin Castle
      Heard Gogarty’s evidence, warts and all.
      How they gave lots of money to Raphael Burke
      When out to the minister’s house they did call.

      There were two in the car with me, says Gogarty,
      Murphy and Bailey on our trip to see Burke.
      When I asked would we get a receipt for the money
      Bailey turns round and says he ‘Will we fuck!’

      Three long years we spent in Dubbelin,
      Three long years in pursuit of the truth.
      Three long years listening to witnesses
      Swearing their oath on God’s Holy Boook.

      *

      Redmond flew out and Redmond flew back again,
      CAB brought him in and CAB let him out again.
      Flood took them on but CAB fought back with him,
      By refusing to dance at the Tribunal Ball.

      Then in July we thought we’d hear something
      When man of the match, Ray Burke, took the stand.
      He’d tell us about the brown paper parcel
      And how he came in for a cool thirty grand.

      When he got in the box Ray started to bluster.
      The poor man he thought he was back in the Dail.
      ‘Mr. Chairman, I spent a few grand on elections,
      And the rest’s in safe-keeping for Fianna Fail.

      Ten long years it’s been in his bank account,
      Ten long years it’s been salted away.
      Ten long years the Fianna Fail party
      Knew nothing about the donation to Ray.

      *

      Ray stepped in and Ray stepped out again.
      Ray grew thin and Ray grew stout again.
      Ray should thank his lawyer Joe Finnegan,
      Who taught him to dance for the Tribunal Ball.

      If you’re looking for lawyers go down to the castle;
      You’ll see the bigwigs all milling around.
      The best of the bar perform there daily -
      And worth every penny of twelve million pound.

      There’s Cooney and Cush – not forgetting Dan Herbert -
      There’s Alan and Leahy and yer man from Smith Foy,
      O’Moore and Callanan with Gerry Sheedy,
      And Anthony Harris in Redmond’s employ.

      14 hundred each for each Senior Counsel -
      60 grand for the doctors of spin.
      Twelve million quid and steadily risin’ -
      But who gives a damn when the lawyers all win.

      *

      O’Neill stepped out and Gallagher stepped in again,
      Dillon stepped in, Hanratty stepped out again.
      Flood had to hear the whole shaggin lot of them
      Taking the floor at the Tribunal Ball.

      Reply
    • That’s a piece of work, John.

      Well done:)

      Reply
    • Fagan's 25/03/12 #

      Gilmartin stood up against FF at a time when it was dangerous for one to do it. Where favours could be called in by ministers and life made extremely hard for you

      Reply
    • Fagan's 26/03/12 #

      One such victim of FF criminality was the Journalist Joe McAnthony who exposed the sweepstakes fraud and first brought to attention Ray Burke’s corrupt payments in the early 70′s.

      He was blackballed for this and had to leave Ireland, he went to Canada and had a very successful career. FF TD’s at the time swore that Joe would never work in Ireland again and they got away with it.

      Reply
  • Padraig Flynn. Another reason to feel sorry for the people of Mayo. I’ll never forget his attack on Mary Robinson during her Presidential campaign.

    What a pity his daughter Beverly didn’t heed her father’s advice and stay at home with her family. He was right about one thing. Beverly Cooper Flynn was a class act alright – Fianna Fail style!

    Reply
  • Sinmac 25/03/12 #

    Corruption in the boom years must have been treble what happened during the years investigated by Mahon. And what does Phil Hogan do when he takes office in Dept of Environment, he cancelled the independent enquiry set up by the Greens to investigate planning irregularities in Dublin, Cork, and Kilkenny / Carlow councils. Nothing has changed!

    Reply
    • Absolutely agree. Mahon exposed what is only the tip of the iceberg and we are left with the fallout.

      Reply
    • Read the recommendations. Its worse than that. The Tribunal have acted to limit the Minister’s involvement in planning matters going forward. Plus they haven’t removed or even limited the main source of corrupt activity, the involvement of Councillors in the planning process. And they have recommended a new layer of bureaucracy a Planning Regulator. Regulators have been totally discredited for the political pawns that they are. And of course bent country managers remain a law unto themselves. The Status Quo is safe.

      Reply
    • Yed have the auld County Development Plan stuck up under yer arm for good looks, a bit of a wink to the Manager, the County Secretary likes a few drinks and sure the job’s sorted.

      Reply
  • “It didn’t work out for him”. Bloody hell.

    No, it sure didn’t. Because Mr Gilmartin was not part of the in crowd, didn’t know the right palms to grease and naively thought that planning had something to do with making good choices on behalf of the citizenry. Wiser men who knew who to pay and how to pay them found that things worked out just fine for them, and even now they are not being called to fully account for the mess they made.

    I wish I could believe that all this crap was truly in the past.

    Reply
  • On a flight home from Brussels some 10 years ago (paid for by myself)
    a passenger beside me described Flynn as he boarded the flight as “a long streak of paralised piss” with the intellectual ability of a Parsnip and personality to match.
    Another amusing story is that somebody placed a plank of wood behind his desk supported by his chair with the words “EU commissioner ” written in biro!!! How apt

    Reply
  • pflynn horrible excuse for a person

    Reply
  • The whole lot of them stole from the state and mr gilmartin was prepared to pay €50,000 to get an advantage over somebody else. Why didn’t he speak out at the time and expose these criminals, and have some principles? The Collins family in limerick who have to leave the country today for their own protection could teach mr gilmartin what it is to speak up.

    Reply
    • There is a certain truth in what you say, but I imagine he came under enormous pressure. It was very hard to go against the prevailing grain at the time, nobody was saying boo, although everybody knew what went on. It was like he landed in some tin-pot dictatorship and was quickly informed he just had to play the game by local rules, whether he liked it or not.

      What he did, or thought he had done, was not strictly illegal – he made a donation to a political party – even if it was dubious, and I get the impression he wasn’t at all happy about it at any point along the way. It was the slimeball Flynn who hived it away for his own use.

      Reply
    • Ciaro 25/03/12 #

      don’t try and shift the blame away from those responsible.

      Reply
  • A slimeballs slimeball

    Reply
  • Aleo 25/03/12 #

    We are again pinning a lot of our hopes on the emigrants of the present becoming the Gilmartins of the future – people who put money earned and experience gained abroad into helping their own country. But all those who read the details of Tom Gilmartin’s return to Ireland could be forgiven for deciding to keep themselves and their money out of the country in the decades to come.

    Reply
    • Do some basic research before coming out with holier-than-thou comments.
      They only serve to put Ireland in a bad light relative to the rest of the world

      Ireland is renowned as a good place to do business and take profits.
      However, no country is without its pitfalls when it comes to developing property.

      Corruption and graft is endemic to politics the world over – Ireland has the balls to expose it.
      I don’t see that is a bad thing – I see it as an improvement in our openness and transparency index.

      Ireland isn’t Spain for example, where “under the counter” cash transactions are handled by the solicitors.
      And in most cases there are pretty good reasons for the eventual outcome – one thing we;re not short on is representatives speaking on our behalf.

      Reply
    • mattoid 25/03/12 #

      Sorry Michael, I thought you said we had representatives speaking on our behalf. Must’ve misread it….

      Reply
    • We may have exposed it, but we haven’t done anything about it yet. Here’s hoping.

      Reply
    • Aleo 26/03/12 #

      I live here, Michael. That counts as basic research. If the truth damages your view of Ireland – tough.

      Reply
  • Commentators need to first learn their history.

    There is far too much glorification of Gilmartin in all of this. He was driven by sour grapes and greed, in inverse order, like most developers who fail in their endeavours.

    He paid €50,000 to Padraig Flynn, who trousered it. Gilmartin was peeved to get fleeced by the political machine and was only motivated to speak out by Flynn’s comments about him on the Late, Late Show. Gay Byrne, who people will remember refused to shake Gerry Adams hand, was a big fan of “Pee Flynn”.

    Gilmartin let’s be honest, had tried to play the corrupt planning game – and failed. This had an understandable negative effect on his fortunes. But its not fair to say O’Callaghan simply took over a profitable machine. As far as I am aware, Gilmartin hadn’t fully assembled the site he needed to build on, and for whatever reason, had not had the credibility to bring the project over the line.

    Enter Owen O’Callaghan.

    O’Callaghan – agagin, for whatever reason – had the backing of the banks in a venture they wanted to succeed – and won. But his appointment was only the start of many months of negotiations, land acquisition, public meetings, lobbying, presentations to financial backer and the like. It didn’t just happen because of Frank Dunlop, as the simple minded might like to suggest. Quarryvale went through the full rigours of a planning process in addition to any issues of zoning.

    Frank Dunlop was a means to an end in a corrupt planning system, widely know about in his own career and well versed in who to bribe to get results. There were no innocent virgins led into corruption in Dublin County Council.

    And don’t lets forget the other player in this – the Green Property Company [GPC]. John Corcoran was developing Blanchardstown Shopping Centre. The promoter used Tomás MacGiolla to disparage O’Callaghan at every opportunity, naming him “the little Cork house-builder” in public meetings. When it became clear the project could not be derailed easily, GPC then made threats that if the then-named Quarryvale Development went ahead – Blanchardstown wouldn’t be built.

    That’s the kind of dirty tricks that went on.

    Blanchardstown was a development which had been trekking along going nowhere for decades under the leadership of John Corcoran. There is an argument that Blanchardstown got constructed – AT LAST – only because of the imminent arrival of Quarryvale/Liffey Valley.

    Nothing is ever written about this drag on the development of Liffey Valley or the threats made against the people of Blanchardstown, a scheduled New Town Centre that the planners had allowed to become totally undermined by the rampant development of Swords.

    There are a lot of stories to tell and its not only a Fianna Fáil based history. Fine Gael Councillor Tom Hand’s request of Frank Dunlop dwarfed even Liam Lawlor’s Tom Hand wanted IR£250,000. John Bruton was informed of this – by Dunlop himself, no less – and chose to do nothing. Therese RIdge knew of it and did nothing, saying it wasn’t her business to “spread rumour”. No, but it was certainly her duty to report news of outrageous bribes being sought to her party leader.

    Reply
    • mattoid 25/03/12 #

      This episode is almost approaching African-style business etiquette. The only difference is that we can vote out our politicians, something we unfortunately failed to do at the time…

      Reply
    • You’re quite right Michael.

      People are putting this interview and others like it down to Gay’s doubtless ability to get the best out of any guest.

      But, as you have said, he was and remains a FF lackey to the core, and admired Flynn as much as he castigated the likes of Annie Murphy, Gerry Adams, and others.

      The fact that this televisual feast occurred in such an eye opening manner at all was down more to mutual backslapping, than it was to any incisive interviewing technique.

      It was akin to two made men sharing war stories at the nineteenth hole. Not Frost/Nixon by any means. Nevertheless, the accidental outcome was a revealing one.

      Reply
    • In fairness tom gilmartin is a citizen, the rest of them were in positions of privilege. Gilmartin isn’t under scrutiny because he was not and elected representative. He could sing from the roof tops and I wouldn’t care what his motivations were as long as those who are supposed to be doing the right thing by the county are called into question. I agree michael that there has to be a more radical change with regard to planning/building regulation but don’t shoot the messenger. Shoot the organ grinder.

      Reply
    • Aleo 26/03/12 #

      As I say – all those who read the story of Tom Gilmartin’s return to Ireland, and are further enlightened by your point-by-point explanation above, could be forgiven, and indeed even commended, if they decided to keep themselves and their money out of the country in the decades to come.

      Reply
  • Done great things for Mayo have Pee &family.

    Reply
    • Aren’t many Mayo people easily bought !! Like some Kerry people. And some Tipperary people. “Shur – they got us da roads & me mudder’s pension” was the battle cry to justify these morons. We are “all” entitled to “the roads” & ur mother “is” entitled to her pension anyway. Fair play to u Mr Gilmartin. Many thanks for doing your bit to bring these shameless people to account. As for that horrendous Beverley Cheesey Grin – go away, please. Thankfully not “all” Mayo people fell for them.

      Reply
    • Turn on yer troll detectors, lads.

      Reply
    • Aw lookit the the red thumbs poor oul Ms Sims got!!!!

      Reply

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