we have never been neutral anyway – would take a referendum – so whats the big deal with US (a partner under nato PFP and an ally) using Shannon?

We sent a letter of condolences to the Germans after WWII in fairness. Or so the legend has it.

Didn’t dev called in person to the German embassy ? I could be wrong

The letter of condolence to Germany was a follow on to the letter of condolence to America several weeks earlier of the death of President FDR. It was about not picking sides. Even though covert support was always with the Allies.

Al queida tend to land their planes into buildings.shannon wouldn’t be of much use to them

As bad as that is, that did make me laugh.

http://www.explosm.net/comics/1018/

we were never neutral, the weather report that facilitated the d-day landings came from belmullet

“What’s the big deal using Shannon”? are you thick?

it’s used for rendition flights and torture of people who have not been charged with any crime

ffs, if Ross is the type of person who cheer-leads ending neutrality then I think most right minded people should know where they stand

rendition flights are an issue of themselves. not every flight into or out of shannon is a rendition flight, whether or not i support joining NATO does not mean I support rendition flights into shannon ffs. its not as black or white as you make it out to be.

“an issue unto themselves” – except that the country responsible for these flights, the US, is practically in charge of NATO

your logic is cat

I wonder what percentage of those captured actually weren’t involved in terrorism or insurgency.
I wonder how many lives have been saved by rendition flights and extraction of information from the detainees.
I wonder if these figures were put out would the majority of people support or protest against them.

Unsurprising in the least that you are in favour of torturing innocents for “the greater good”

There is always another way, and in this case it’s rather simple: don’t poke your nose into countries where you don’t belong and you won’t have people trying to blow themselves up to take revenge on you, hence no need for torture to protect your country.

Maybe someone should’ve said that to OBL prior to 9-11-2001
HE targeted the US, im sure it goes tit for tat a long way back and yes the US is deeply involved in the affairs of many other countries, nobody is denying that, but personally if it saves one irish life at the rendition of a citizen of another country, I would choose it. But thats me, im sure, based on the comments Ive read here, that im in the minority. Anyway we have bigger fish to fry in ireland and like I said, increasing defence via NATO plus a kick in development, production and manufacturing in the arms industry would greatly benefit every citizen of ireland.

You’re on sick puppy

torture is grand with you

boosting the arms industry (i.e creating weapons that kill people in other countries) is grand if it brings a few poxy jobs to Ireland

It would create more than a few poxy jobs.

we already have an arms industry, its quite lucrative. be foolish not to expand all areas of industry but we seem to have exhausted most other industries already.

Maybe we can start exporting people like you so you can help where it really matters? you can work directly with the terrorists that we are trying to rid the world of, or their victims? Id warrant far more people day each day due to the likes of the taliban and other terrorist groups than do due to a misplaced bomb by nato.

The Irish people were not asked about US military landings at Shannon. In fact numerous polls show that the people opposed this. The government may have picked “sides” but the people are entitled to a say.

He called in person to the American embassy to offer condolences on the death of FDR. Hitler died less than a month later, so Dev was obliged to offer condolences to Germany, in order to maintain the appearance of neutrality. Ireland may have been and is officially neutral officially, in practice we are anything but. The poll question should be more on the lines of “Should we admit that we are not neutral or should we become neutral?”

We didn’t even appear to be neutral. If German airmen crashed in Ireland they were handed over to the British. We also sent fire engines to Belfast to fight fires caused by German bombs, and lets not forget the thousands of Irishmen who fought on the Allies side. At least they were brave enough to stand up to fascist thugs even if their government wasn’t.

All those that either think we should “get rid of our neutrality” or that we are neutral should look at the number of thumbs up Richard has got for his comment. Possibly the most this week.

As for Ross Mg Gee, the big deal is that by Ireland allowing the US to use Shannon to transport troops, as a stopover for fuel and for internationally illegal renditions leading to torture we are facilitating the disgusting things they are doing. I would perfectly understand anyone considering us as collaborators. In short, tortured and murdered people is a big deal. And yes, it’s black and white. Allowing them to use out airports makes it a lot easier for the US to continue their terrorism.
As for your percentages argument I suggest YOU go and see exactly how few people the US themselves have been charged with acts of terrorism (even with their kangaroo courts). How is their behaviour any different from the old witch trials? The Inquisiton? Are they all good?
Actually, if Ross isn’t a troll or a Journal plant put in here to wind us up I’d be really worried!

QUOTE: ” if Ross isn’t a troll or a Journal plant put in here to wind us up I’d be really worried”

Em, I dont get this? Cant you see by all of my comments im in favor of joining NATO?

Just because I am not of agreement with your skewed leftist at best “conspiracy theory” filled views doesn’t make me a troll.

I represent, with my comments in favor of NATO, quite a sizable portion of the population – at least 18% (at last check ) not to mention how many of the 29% *ahem* “neutrals” – who in a typically Irish manner “dont know” although they can be forgiven due to the stupid ill-informed and amateur nature of the polls title.

I come from a military (amongst other things) background and a military family with members who have served not only in the Irish defence forces but also in the british army, royal navy and US army in both world wars, iraq and afghanistan. That influences my opinions greatly.

I however do not call people here with differing views to mine, trolls.

It actually highlights your disbelief that, “Christ, an Irish man who doesn’t believe in sitting on the fence, in favor of NATO, who says we arent neutral, why cant he see the US foreign policies and military for the warmongering baby killers that they are?” and frankly, no I don’t.

Whilst I don’t necessarily agree with all of US (and other members of NATO) heavy handed actions I can appreciate that they are willing and able to not only ensure the survival of their own interests, people and culture, but are willing to step in to other one sided wars and try to defend those of other cultures.

No matter which country I name, be it Vietnam, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, even here (rather embarrassingly as the EU stood idly by and scratched its arse) in Europe in the former Yugoslavia – it was US led missions and operations that tried to restore some sort of order or defend some way of life – not always the “right” crusade but nevertheless I have to admire their determination to actually make a f**king decision, something we Irish seem absolutely incapable of doing at best. im sure you will scream Oil or communism etc… I dont believe that’s the case in each one, im sure you do have a counter argument, then again, thanks to your democratic free speech, again defended by the irish constitution and law system and ultimately the Irish defence forces, you are entitled to your viewpoints, I am fully capable of disagreement and can publically deride you if I wish, but I dont for a second believe you’ve come out from under a bridge to give them to me. so you can – with all due respect – shove your troll comment where the sun dont shine – back under that bridge.

Ireland could benefit from some of the

Very true, Ireland has relied on the Allies for its defence during WW2 and NATO during the cold war. We’re not truely neutral unless we can defend ourselves. The Swiss or the Swedes may not be able to do it but at least they attempt to do so.

TBH, it’s to Irelands shame that we didn’t join the Allies in WW2.

who defines neutrality?…. what if we don’t accept this definition?

The legal nature of our ‘neutrality’ and how it compares to others is not the issue.

A commitment to NATO, & it being funded by the Americans is something we don’t want.

simple.

You deserve more green thumbs for that!

Are irish people and national newspapers REALLY this thick? we’ve never been constitutionally neutral – it would take a referendum ffs.

Quite the mouth piece this morning aren’t we….

Finally, a chink of light at the end of the tunnel!

Are you trying to start a war all on your own Ross?

Ross, not sure where you’re from or living or what type of envoirnment you grew up in, but let me tell you, you’d make a great Tea Party activist over here in the USA. They need reactionaries like you!

Or indeed within the country

I’m not even going to vote in the poll, it’s such an irrelevancy.

Yeah, except the people of the countries who “we” start invading

Are you people being wilfully ignorant or what? it makes a LUAS tram or the number 66A out to Maynooth a legitimate target in the eyes of Jihadists

Not only that, but there are clear moral implications for being complicit in genocide in far off countries for profit.

Yeah clearly you care. But I doubt people outside Ireland care.

“Are you people being wilfully ignorant or what?”

Well if we’re slinging insults I’m going to have to ask if you were actually able to read my comment.

Join NATO, let the US build a massive naval base down south and a training camp out west and let them pay for enlisting 100,000 Irish kids who can’t get a job. Jobs and training paid for by the US and European military.
What’s the down side we give up something we don’t have?

This is not the acts of a natural nation. We are in the Eu And we must play our part in the world. This does not mean we have to go and fight in every war but when our values and our democracy’s are threatened we should stand with our European friends and be counted!

This poll is a joke. we’ve never been neutral .. ever .. it would take a constitutional amendment – so US can land where they want. We are part of the EU rapid reaction force yes but still couldn’t go anywhere with it unless it was under the triple lock agreement. educate yourselves people.

You’re absolutely right, Ireland is NOT neutral. We never signed The Hague convention and if we did we couldn’t allow US troops to use Shannon

As an aside, being neutral would require us to spend a lot more on defence to enforce that neutrality

Look at what happened in the Balkans during the 1990s when all of Europe stood by and the Americans had to get the ball rolling.

well it is time for Ireland to put the big boy pants on but the investment in creating a “proper Military” simply is not there certainly if ireland wants to produce its own “items” eg armour cars, tanks, weapons systems, planes, ships. etc. almost all of these would be produced abroad there would be next to no increase in employment.

Where are the arms manufacturers? the ship builders etc? simply put if ireland wanted to modernise and increase its military might etc. the only place to go would be the UK, US or Europe for the equipment.

It is not that simple, James. We do not have neutrality in our constitution but there is a statutory bar to taking part in all but the most narrowly defined circumstances. This is the so-called “triple-lock” mechanism. It would require a referendum to change this.

Cheers for that, Brendan, I stand corrected. Would you have a link were I could read up more on that?

er in WWII i have no idea what it ment Germany certainly did not respect neutrality the benalux countries were neutral and look what happened there??? If Germany had really wanted to invade Ireland they would have and it would have been easy. if there had been an a German invasion Britain certainly would of counter invaded.

Face facts Neutrality in war only matters if everyone else respects it or your big enough to fend off everyone. in Peace time its just words

Cheers…now i’ve got that lionel richie song stuck in my head…its going to be a long day now!

We’re not even nuetral on paper…

So do we have a ‘shared value’ of drone bombing civilians? May be only if they are Muslim-or something like that? Don’t talk rot Keith!

I know at least one of those 16% is in fact a member of the defence forces. I personally think Ireland should, within its limited capabilities, play a bigger part in global security and shouldn’t be afraid to pick sides. To stand up with other nations and say something is wrong and something should be done about it. I’m not saying we should become a lapdog of the US and join in whatever illegal war or morally questionable adventure they embark on but sometimes Ireland should do something. Even if its just like in Mali where we will soon send 8 soldiers to train their military.

How is anyone voting to get shot? And what is so morally superior about neutrality?

If your neighbour is beating his kids do you pay yourself on the back for staying out of it?

I voted yes to ending “neutrality”….not because I want ireland to go to war but because I would rather we be straight about things. A small country needs allies if we are not willing to spend the money ourselves on boosting our armed forces. As we are members of the EU for the foreseeable future, anything that threatens the EU is a threat to us equally so. Be that directly or indirectly. I know it would be Irish lives on the line but we should do our fair share and not hope other countries would aid us if needed.

For what its worth before you ask, yes I would serve in a time of crisis if required or deemed eligible.

How long does this country expect others to do our dirty work for us . The the Defence forces in this country are all volunteers and it is the career that they choose . The minister for foreign affairs condemned North Korea yesterday . Is this being neutral ? Being neutral means you can in force your own neutrality eg Switzerland. The only reason Ireland wishes to be neutral is so the government can withhold spending on the defence forces

Lapdog? Yeah u just let the US and the other countries do the dirty work while you sit around and take up space and run their useless mouths.

Cathy, did you read my comment or just get upset because I’m critical of the US? The US can keep its dirty work (and as often as not dirty is the apt word) but I do think Ireland should do more. I gave Mali as an example. But but there’s a lot going on in the world where the EU, UN and NATO can make a stand and Ireland should have the courage of its convictions. That DOESN’T mean blindly following the US (since they’re partial to lying bout WMDs, torture, breaching international law and supporting dodgy practices and regimes etc…)

So you’re happy for American kids to die on our behalf as we shelter under their shield? Not to mention the fact that we are one of the lowest ranking countries in energy independence… Our “neutrality” is bogus. We’re not neutral. And anyway, if we were ever invaded we’d be crying for help pretty fast as we’re incapable of defending our “neutrality”. Need to face up to reality and support our allies.

Yeah and i dont think the germans will convince the swedish to give up their nuetrality!

Very informative comment, a good alternative to NATO membership too, non neutral but still willing to have a more robust foreign policy? something I havent considered deeply in a while, would be a very good alternative to NATO membership but would require a far more robust foreign policy and department of defence.

There is nothing in the constitution about neutrality.

Nobody would step in to help us.

We don’t have deep pockets, but I’m sure that will be consolation if we ever need to defend ourselves or take a hand in supporting those who are defending us by proxy.

Finally someone talking sense.

Just look at the attack on Stockholm a few years back due to Sweden’s involvement in Afghanistan

People who are saying “ah sure what difference would it make” need to get their heads examined

Agreed. But there’s a broader point to make. Supporting US/EU militarism and imperialism would be wrong. That’s a good enough reason to oppose being part of it all, regardless of the risk of attacks on Ireland.

we have had our share of terrorism on this island we have to be careful with K ÓL and his sinister sick buddies trying to reinvigorate the home grown type.

we have to be careful of space cadets like you Andy who support Imperial state-terror

And you support rendition of the internal type, except waterboarding is too soft for your menu of eyball plucking and hot pokers. And that is just for those that will not bow to the socialist mantra after treatment in the Gulag.

Ok, so it’s not because you have a moral problem with joining NATO, it’s because you’re afraid of the consequences?

Cowards. “The terrorists” you’re so afraid of have already beaten you because they are dictating your actions. Thank god people like that 12 year old from Afghanistan have more guts than you lot

I suspect you mean Pakistan.

Chuck you’ll see in an above post I’ve clearly said that it’s immoral for us to be involved in this

Mars, if that is your real name. “hot pokers” lol, jog on will you!

I always find it’s the fools with the anonymous facebook and twitter profiles who are most full of hot air

K ÓL
Foolish eh, I do not think so, you are a front for a dangerous terrorist organisation so I have to be careful, I do not want to end up like poor old Robert McCartney beaten with sewer rods and disembowelled in a back lane because that is how you and your sinister cronies think the hot air should be let out of people who do not agree with you and your twisted version of reality. So you jog on there Kerron, in your delusional Marxist fantasy of fixing the worlds wrongs.

What does out constitution actually say or fail to say that makes us believe we are neutral?

have a look here – nothing about neutrality im afraid.

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng)Nov2004.htm

i think everyone got the point when u replied to everyone telling them we are not neutral….thanks u can stop now

Your argument is ridiculous. You need to learn the difference between policy, law, and constitutional law.

Of course you can be neutral and not have it in the Constitution. It’s a policy decision that’s taken by every Government. It just so happens that every Government is in favour of us remaining neutral. You’re saying that we can’t take a position on anything unless it’s in the Constitution?? There’s nothing in the Constitution about driving on the left, but we do that too, and if we wanted to change it, we wouldn’t have to amend the Constitution.

Again, listen and learn – we have never been neutral anyway – would take a referendum.

Martin Mac.

Please tell us what a fighting legend like yourself brings to the table. If you are that passionate why not join the American or British or French army etc and get in to the action or are you yourself too much of a coward to stand behind your belief.

I

The Irish have one more Victoria Crosses per capita than any other nation. Hardly a bunch of soft cowards

Many armies have units designated as “Irish” in recognition of the contributions of Irish soldiers throughout their history. We’re a soldier race, without the history of war crimes that usually entails

Won! Not one

Where’s the poll to install an edit button?

Ancient history. All the fighting Irish have long since emigrated to democratic countries.

we have never been neutral anyway – would take a referendum.

Give it a rest, what a completely flawed one sided, idiotic statement, yes they may have fuelled up here but we didn’t tell them go to Iraq and kill civilians. Cop on.

you seem to deliberately miss the point lisa, we may not have declared a ‘side’ in any conflict, but the act of friendly logistic support to one side in any war will naturally be treated like an act of aggression by the other, ‘the friend of my enemy is my enemy’, real neutrality would mean not allowing a warring faction support.

I think you maybe misunderstanding the term neutrality RP, it means we don’t have a military allegiances with other countries, for example what happen in WW1. We sell them fuel and whiskey in Shannon, to not sell them these things could be seen as taking sides.

So if a guy fills his car with petrol at topaz and he drives to a house where he kills someone then topaz in someway are responsible for that death. Is that what you’re saying?

as would selling them and allowing respite in the country, either way we are not neutral, the policies of any warring country seems to be ‘if you are not with us you are against us’, this does not allow for neutrality and gwbush stated it in no uncertain terms, we didnt really have a choice but we arent neutral

yes lisa, that is exactly the same thing, you show great understanding of the issue

rp is correct.

If we let Iraq fuel here, would we consider ourselves neutral?

@RP, i know you are being sarcastic in your last comment there, but as a matter of fact it IS exactly the same situation, IF the driver of that car TOLD the topaz garage that he was on his way to commit murder, and bribed the garage attendant to let him refuel anyway

Peasant, be grateful your not speaking German or Arabic.

Yes Cathy, hitlers master plan was to have us all speaking German. In fact that’s where Saddam gotthe idea for his plan to invade Ireland and force us all to speak Arabic!

Linda. What about the prisoners that we knew the Americans were bringing to Shannon Airport as a stopover that were going to be tortured?
That sound neutral?
Evil is done when good men stand back and do nothing.
I think the question should be altered to ‘should we remain a people that continues to stick its head in the sand while the Govt does what it likes with absolutely no accountability’

If the US wasnt fighting the islamists trying to contain that nonsense while people like u sat around whining in your beer, what do u think would happen? Don’t you have to go drive drunk in the country or something?

@Gearóid Ó Murchadha amazing that the campaigns to bring home the troops in both the US and the UK are run by members of the forces or their family members and share the same sentiments as you have expressed here, some people prefer to follow the lies of aggressive war-mongering politicians or vested interest, profit motivated media, they like to have others create enemies for them, they think this conflict started on 11/9/01, I suggest reading the year 2000 edition of the lonely planet guide Central Asia (non politically oriented travel guide), it has a page devoted to describing how the USA wants to bring 2 oil pipelines through Afghanistan from Russia to the Persian Gulf, no coincidence then that they had to invade any countries that weren’t friendly on this route, gw-bush didnt even try to be discrete when he said ‘we will not let anyone stand in the way of our oil supply’

No American bomber has ever refuelled in Shannon on the way to any bombing mission.
Try not to fall for the lefty propaganda all the time.

split all the hairs you want denis, allowing bombless war planes to refuel on the way to or from conflict in any capacity is not a neutral action

My dead granfather dead somewhere in the Ardens and his war mongering 3 kids and widow thank you so much for your infinite wisdom o great peasant!!!!!! Have a wonderful day!

sorry your grandfather is dead, a victim of war? so you support war then?

I don’t see how the courage and sacrifice of your grandfather in WWII makes bad US foreign policy today any better?!

Yes i do, hope that pisses u off more. Me and my war mongering family! Kindly shove your condolences. I hope you’re enjoying your freedom to run your rotten mouth you filthy left wing freak! You should hang out with Obama! Then again I think he may have more sense than you.

that is because bombers are based on aircraft cariers,

What about when soviet planes were allowed to stop over on the way to Cuba back in the day?

The wild geese left Ireland because it was under British rule at the time!
The fighting 69th. are not members of our defence forces!
About 400 Irishmen are in the british army! ….. That’s .00001% of our poulation.
The whole point about neutrality is that if we are neutral then nobody attacks! …………. Who’s going to attack us? …..

The cabinet can vote to send troops over seas if the contingent is less then 12 people. In the case of Mali, Uganda/Somalia and Afghanistan all commitments are under 12 people.
When it comes to large scale deployments however, and as i stated earlier, we have the same process of sending troops overseas as the UK and the US (with the added requirement that the mission is mandated by the UN) in that both houses of government and the executive must agree to the deployment.
UNAMA is a UN mandated mission in Afghanistan under UN resolution 1401. It came to be in December 2002 following the US led invasion of Afghanistan. So, what ever your views of the initial invasion are, the current presence of troops, including those of the Irish, are sanctioned by the UN.
NATO can be a huge force for good. Examples of this are the Balklands, where intervention by NATO forces ended genocide on an industrial scale and prevented further killings the likes of which the world had not seen since the Holocaust. I never hear people shout ‘Wolf’ over the US led invasion and liberation from tyranny of those countries.
Its absence can lead to atrocities that can shake the world. Where was NATO during the Rwandan genocide? But then where was the UN, the African Union or the European Union? Lessons have been learnt since then of course and organisations have grown internationally such as the EU rapid reaction force and EU mandated missions such as Chad, Mali and Somalia.
However mistakes are still being made . Arguments rightfully exist that some of its recent actions have not been completely without fault. But NATO’s own Sec Gen Anders Rasmussen recently stated that NATO is not the worlds policeman. And, I agree, Nor should it be. But in the absence of a world policeman working on behalf of global security, peace and the preservation of life in every country and on every continent then the closest thing we can ask for is that NATO can step in and do this job; for who else can?
The question we have to ask ourselves, as a nation who claims to want global peace and prosperity, is whether we stand by on the outside of NATO shouting at every mistake, or get involved in NATO and change it for the better of both the Organisation, ourselves and our Globe.

I’m sorry to disagree with you but there are several european treaties that are in law on the express legal understanding that we are neutral! To have the soldiers in service as you have pointed out means one of two things …. the european treaties are now deemed invalid or we bring our soldiers immediately! …. that’s the law , just because the government is breaking the law does not mean it’s o.k.! …in fact under article 9.3.of the irish constitution …this is enough to force the resignation of both the Government and the President !
The game is simple if you want join the irish defence forces you may be asked to serve on peace -keeping U.N. backed missions ….. if one wants to go to war …then one join the British army , or the foreign legion!

What a silly comment. what makes you think that if we became a NATO partner that there would be a draft? Irish forces are fully volunteer.

There are plenty of neutral countries that operate obligatory military or civil service for young citizens and have a draft in place for times of crisis. I always wondered why so many irish people are against the idea of serving their country when the need is there.

Besides Ireland is only neutral on paper. We couldn’t properly defend ourselves against most nations that could attack us. If you don’t have the ability to protect your neutrality, well sorry you don’t really have it.

What age are ye lads and surely yere not that Gullible .

You are assuming King Olaf – that we are a neutral country – when plainly we are not a neutral state like austria, sweden or finland.

@Ross – I suppose the best way to describe it would that we are historically non-belligerent.

King Olaf, can you point me toward the piece of paper on which it says Ireland is neutral?

No I can’t because as Ross has pointed out many times now, that piece of paper doesn’t exist. I guess I am guilty of taking what Irish politicians have said about it for many years at face value. Shame on me.

Oh i Forgot France Iran Israel .The world is at war its just unofficial yet.The level of Ignorance to what is going around the world is obscene.Nato wants Ireland to become unneutral now when their is a depression going on in Europe Currency Wars going on between China Japan Europe United States Russia Britain very volatile situation on the horizon and now noises about giving up our neutrality .Who is going to attack Ireland who.This is to bring Irish people mostly young males under the control of NATO who can draft them in to fight any wars they see fit to fight.NATO’S track record is’nt the best they are the strongarm of big business and Banks.Read a history book before more uninformed adults sign their children up for something the older wiser ha generations have let start through complete ignorance of what is really going on in the wider world..Just for once have the vision to see past the story of the day which leads to another story and before we know it our young lads are part of a sham European army that goes off to fight for Globalists and Bankers vested interests.Jesus.

Hey Jack, I know this tree, its a bit lonely and could do with a hug…. where do you get this nato – draft – signing lives away – eu army – crap from? theres no draft and even if part of NATO we STILL couldnt go anywhere unless it was under the triple lock. dear lord above, below and beyond.

Thats a nice tin foil hat you are wearing there jack.

Its because of fools like ye our country is wrecked do you know that go away and inform yereselves .Recession Currency War War .Tin foil hat tree hugging the typical nonsense from sillybuggers.

Because of fools like me eh?

how in the name of jasus did you figure that one out?

firstly im not a banker – you’ll find them heaped in with the developers and previous govts and finance ministers and irish bond holders.

Ive not had the pleasure of working in any of these roles.

secondly your comments are typical diatribe filled with rumours, whispers and general conspiracy theories.

If we were part of NATO, it would mean more jobs for one thing.

I personally would like to see the arms industry sector grow here as it was mean MANY more jobs in Ireland and more foreign investment. I also guess many unemployed people couldn’t care less whether they were making the ejection mechanism for the Browning .5 Heavy Machine Gun as opposed to Waterford Crystal vases so long as it meant there was a salary coming into a home.

Im sure you wouldn’t like that now – but you are entitled to free speech, unlike many in the middle east, Syria or Mali or Ethiopia or other countries unlucky enough to not live in our kind of democracy, but next time you decided to comment, it wouldnt hurt to offer a small thanks and just remember that your right to free speech is enshrined in the constitution and protected ultimately by those who carry weapons in service to our state, ensuring that nobody else takes it away from you, whether you like it or not.

The strength of our military is set by the government. IF we joined NATO that wouldn’t change (unless we were invaded which I’d doubt is in any way likely). As it is at the moment with ISAF, UNIFIL etc… Our contributions are limited, maybe by the defence forces size and capabilities? Yes we’re part of an EU battlegroup but what do we actually contribute? Maybe one company? And a battalion to Lebanon? And a few hundred more spread out around other missions (like a half dozen or so with ISAF)? It’s not that much. Your talk of the draft is silly scaremongering bull! There is enough real things to worry about without making stuff up!

Ross Europe is Federalising and will have an army trust me lets not go back to the days of WW2 look whats happening the superpowers are squaring up to each other American warships all off the south china sea and Japan their is a currency war being fought between the U.S and China Japan Europe Russia its all leading to something and now when all this volatility appears Irish Neutrality gets served up to us starts with whispers first of course.NATO treaty are not worth the paper their printed on they have illegally attacked before whats to sat thgey will draft beak their treaty and go again big mistake leaving the door open to a globalist war machine .Learn from history it has a tendency to repeat itself.Not your fault country is wrecked i accept withdraw that staement but people really start to open their eyes.Gooday.

Jesus Ross you sound like a millitary man .At ease soldier.

Can’t really add anything more than what Ross said.

But get over yourself jack. You lose all credibility in an argument when you start talking about NWO style conspiracy theories. I think that perhaps it is you who could do with reading up on things before mouthing off. I bet you most of your info has come from some looper making videos on YouTube rather than actual sources.

You said that Too KING OLAF when you had no bother in Israel bombing the hell out of GAZA ye boys are a different breed and i except that i hope ye sign up so dont be shy when the time comes.Youtubes for music buddy.Typical the earth is flat it must be answer from a rock that just sits there and never thinks.

Yes jack, a lot of people with views like yours get them from youtube videos rather than actual sources that can be referenced. Thats why you fly off the handle when people have different views to yours. You confuse your opinion with what is accepted as fact based upon research and reason.

Jack, I think you’re the one who needs to educate yourself. See how long your high moral ground lasts in time of need. We’re managed to stay out of most conflicts in the last 100 years or so, but I’d say the Irish have plenty of history that should help them understand what happens when a stronger outsider gets interested. You may not be interested in war, but war is interested in you (von clausewitz, a war monger)

Bit of discipline for once would do the kids good.

please tell us more we didnt get it the first 100 times.

Fairy tales….

By that logic; if we have a big army we make war yeah?

BIG GUN=BIG FIGHTY FIGHT

Er other way around I think. Ask the swiss.