Well done. All been there. Would not fancy it again

If that had been understood in my day, then I would have been saved lots of problems. Twice!

Conor, I agree. I am of the generation which inflicted this points race punishment on our youth. I believe it even to be worse than you describe it. How we stood by whilst this mental punishment was allowed to be inflicted on our young people is beyond me. Not alone is there the stress of the exam but , also , the stress of those awful ponts. Will I , Won’t I ? It is rotten.

I cannot believe “educationalists” whom I hear one the radio saying this is the best system. It should be on a metaphorical par with the “human rights ” issue in China. A plague upon it. I cannot prove it , but I do feel that it caused lasting mental health damage. Well said.

Conor, you are from Fermanagh and did A-levels :L

I have a dream/nightmare about once every year or two. Involves me waking up present day I’m 31 and I’m going to do my exams I’ve not studied in 10 years and my future depends on these exams and I remember nothing looking at the paper.

Personally I feel our system should be different, someone might be crap at math but excells at languages should be continuous assessment and identifies strengths and steers you in that direction. But that makes sense and this Is Ireland so I guess not a chance of it happening

If you can get one. I like the idea of the HPAT as a lot of people that were going into Medicine were unsuitable to the profession. Hopefully you do better next time. Also good look getting menial work, even that is hard to get.

I think you’ll find it should be: “the number of people out there who can’t spell basic words is unbelievable”.

@Deirdre: Well spotted :)

If say you proof read that comment five times.

You wouldn’t send your kid to an Irish school? Drastic isn’t it?

I think you really hit the nail on the head with this!! In particular the part regarding languages. I love speaking Irish, but unfortunately Irish class for me in 2nd level was learning off poetry (pointless venture). I grew a love for the language by speaking it when I went to the Gaeltacht over the summers all those years ago. I “studied” French for 6 years, but the incompetence of the teachers and the teaching methods mean I only have a very basic understanding of the language. I was also the only student (out of 195ish) in my leaving cert year to do ordinary level English and higher level Irish. We had 7 Irish classes that year, only one was higher level, sad state of affairs!!

Thanks Stephen. I see I got 6 red thumbs! I wish people would add their own suggestions/ideas!

HI Ryan

There is some really great points in there. I totally agree with the use of Irish/MFL but there needs to be more emphasis on the spoken word. I know some schools now do Orals for JC but its not across the board. As regards splitting Irish into Lang and Lit is also an interesting Idea, however I think this needs to be done with English more so than Irish.
As regards CPD and “in Service”, the DES only offers inservice when a new course comes on line, ie project maths. A lot has to be done in evenings now (may be different at primary level). ‘m qualified to teach, but I don’t. I do tons of CPD in my own time, the DES has never offered me anything in relation to anything I am qualified to teach, so this is the only option for me. It’s also very expensive. I do agree it is important but forcing it to be done in the summer may not be the best solution, seeing as there may be those who want to teach who cant, and have to work elsewhere in other industries until they can teach.
your point about the increment is coming in anyways under the Teaching Council Act. If teachers don’t do CPD they will be struck off the register, according to the Teaching Councils website. When this will come in, I don’t know.
I think continuous assessment is one way to go, but also assessing that learning occurs is just as important. I disagree with standardised testing at xmas and summer, but there does need to be a high standard there forr examination purposes.
Terminal exams will never go (SEC would neve rallow 100% continuous assessment) and the requirement for 3rd level universities to accept a subject to be valid for entry, must contain 30% written examined element (minimum) so the likely hood is exams worth 35-40%.
Submitting work online is something that happens in the UK, however I do believe a mixed approach, some online, some on paper, is better. It can be much better to edit and give feedback online, however at the end of the day, exams are written and students need to learn how to use grammar and spelling without autocorrect or MS Word.
As regards the points system, I have many problems with it. In theory it is very fair, but it is not very just. Some subjects award Higher grades a lot easier than others. Even between languages, it is known that it is easier to get an A in Italian than any other MFL. Assess students on Ability only, not on relation to each other. I think the bonus 25 for hons maths is also very unfair, as it undrcuts other subjects, and people getting a B1 in OL probably understand more than a D3 at HL.

Did mine in 99 but what’s changed? Still same amount of subjects? Would not have thought it got more easier ?

Although we do need to seriously up the standard of grammar. People writing text speak grrrrrr I h8 wen dat happens

Certainly Gaius the current education system is not fitting our young people for any current or future workforce, given that it is so completely not fit for purpose. Third level education providers in this country too are universal too in their condemnation of a system of rote learning that produces undergraduates who cannot think for themselves. Creativity (which I’m here defining as the process of having original ideas that have value) is what the modern workplace is acknowledged to need more than anything, but we in this country have not kept up with the times in the education that we provide for our young people. The Government has acknowledged how lacking our current system is in its publicity announcing the current process to reform the Leaving Certificate curriculum – personally I don’t think the changes go far enough!
This RSA Animate about the ideas of Sir Ken Robinson is really fun and an interesting critique of current educational systems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDZFcDGpL4U
As is his TED talk here (both funny and moving): http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html

Basically i’ve seen some English exam papers with pictures of The Simpsons and Bono, with inane questions afterwards, so really a lot of dumbing down, as well as multiple questions the student can answer (a) or (b) or (c) or (d) or (e) of (f), almost impossible that something you studied won’t come up, wasn’t like that in our day, now where did I put my abacus

Fact! You have 2 years to prepare for 7 subjects, it ain’t that hard if you put the work in.

College is the same Craic except it’s easier to plagiarise :)

Pádraig, many employers disagree with you about the IB and find that LC graduates are better educated. Those involved in the IB in Ireland refer to it as “the equivalent of the Leaving Certificate”. Many say le BAC is trying to emulate the excellence and objectivity of the LC.

Have a look here: http://www.lfi.ie/Secondary.html

I am a bit fed-up with the notion that the Irish education system can benefit from “change”, when it seems to be just for change’s sake.

Let’s try funding it as well as in France and Finland, etc, FIRST; let’s see how it compares on an even-pitch?

Tim,
I teach the IB and have done for years. It is FAR better than the LC. It is challenging without killing the students. The exams are more fair and only account for about 20 per cent of the overall grade in many subjects. There is far more continuous assessment and the professional development is ongoing for teachers. In fact, Math in the IB is regarded as better than the LC. All IB teachers from Ireland whom I have worked with in Nyc, Paris, Rome and Dubai agree that the IB is FAR better than the LC. I got 560 points in the LC but it was mainly down to having a good memory and writing essays well. The IB teaches you more to think and prepares the student better for university. There is also a grater subject choice availability. Teachers also assess about 50 percent of the students’ work and they are moderated to ensure standards are adhered to and that favoritism does not come into play. The English and Theatre syllabi (yes, they have theatre !!) are superb. I wish I had done the IB. Only similarity is that 7 subjects are taken in both normally. Students also must do community and service which is wonderful, the Theory of Knowledge which is like a seminar forum in university and they do an extended essay akin to what they will actually do at university. You should check it out instead of listening to hear say ….

*greater

Ps: the link you provide is for the French BAC which also has an international component … The IB is something completely different …. You should check if out :)

http://www.ibo.org
The employers I worked for ALL over the globe never heard of the LC and don’t give a damn (except for Libyans!!!!). Irish education is small fry to them regardless of our self inflated notions. The students I teach go to Oxbridge, LSE, Trinity and The Ivy League schools along with many other colleges … You can contact any of these universities …. The IB is one of the most regarded courses out there. Period.

Some curriculum has changed, some goes back as far as 1971. There is project work in some subjects but again its very minimal. It doesn’t promote Non-rote learning as most of it is done as a write up a week before the deadline .

As many as it bloody well takes to get rid of this system , you clown !

No . Designed by Pols and not argued against by parents who , maybe , ought to have foreseen what the harm it would do. The teachers have really nothing to do with this Eilish. Why , oh why , did no one shout stop?

In fairness there are usually teachers involved in setting the curriculum however it’s not just them involved.

Nonsense Eilish. Teachers have been arguing for years now that the Leaving Certificate in its current format is not fit for purpose. I think you’ll also find that teachers are largely ignored by government despite being the front line professionals in this area. For example, Ruairi Quinn, when faced with concerns about resources and training for teachers in delivering the proposed new Junior Cert Curriculum said that the reforms would go ahead “with or without teachers’ consent”. However, in Finland, South Korea and other OECD countries which outperform Ireland in the PISA assessments, teachers are at the heart of decision making and policy development when it comes to education. Our government, unfortunately, seems to think an education system with a commercial and competitive ethos akin to what is seen in the UK and the USA, ought to be the way we should go, again, despite what the professionals, i.e. teachers say.

Absolutely Eilish. The teachers are clearly to blame. Absolutely. Eilish.

Eilish, what a gross sweeping generalisation. The fact of the matter is there is no sure fire quick way to sort the Leaving Certificate. As it is a high stakes assessment, it has to be carefully, and transparently teased out, because if one thing goes wrong, the whole system fails. The NCCA (National Council for Curriculum and Assessment)& the SEC (State Exams Commission) are the bodies in charge of developing curriculum, and formal state assessment and examinations in this country. Some of them may have been teachers in the past. Most are educationalists. None are actively teaching. New schemes and syllabi also need a trial phase, so the earliest a new LC could come in to play is 2017-18 and thats being ambitious. Funding is also a major issue.

As a qualified teacher (out of work due to cutbacks) I hate the leaving certificate. It is not conducive to industry standards, and in the subject I am qualified to teach, there has been no curricular change since 1971. Its also a subject, where despite the number of assessments (4 exams, one 5 hour, two 2.5 hours and one 1 hour) the yield of A’s at higher level is about 3.75% ie less than 60 people nationally, which turns people off the subject, for something a bit easier points wise, like AG science, which is mostly rote learning as opposed to creativity. The big buzz word at the moment is creativity and thinking outside the box, but all the money is being pumped into linear subjects, where you chew it all up and spit it out.

I get really annoyed when people like you, who obviously have no clue about education, project management, research, development and assessment make such ill-informed and grossly sweeping generalisations. Yes you may have hates school, and hated your teachers, but no need to tar an entire profession with such negativity.