He is waiting for an over paid advisor to tell him what he thinks and an over paid script writer to hand him a speech!

Either that or he’s actually for it but terrified he’ll lose a lot of the older vote if he admits it.Either way, he’s a coward.

The only way to find out if the majority of the public is in favour or not is to have a referendum. Then we can move on to more pressing issues.

@peedoff, what’s it like under that bridge?

Yes, of course it’s a choice. I remember the day I first chose to be gay, it was when I realised that it was illegal in the country I live in. I mean who wouldn’t want to risk jail for the person they love? And when I realised that I would in all likelihood be bullied, verbally abused, possibly shunned by my family and friends, treated less favourably in work situations and have less rights than everyone else, well- I knew I chose correctly.

Wise decision Enda Kenny.
Don’t be bullied into a decision by this (thankfully) minority group.

@Nigel

Yes, a coward, a dishonest coward. Stand up and be counted. We, the people, parents would like to know which side of the door our Taoiseach is on. I wonder what his reaction would be if and when his son/daughter, if they had the courage, told him that he/she was gay? He obviously thinks, hopes and prays that it won’t happen!

Doesn’t matter whether he’s afaid he’ll lose voters he’s already lost them. Not answering this question won’t make much difference. He should answer it for the young people of Ireland, they need to know that they not only have the support of their family but the Government of the day and people of Ireland.

Has the gay community high-jacked the Journal by any chance?
Almost every day the same sad topic.
If world war 3 broke out it would get less coverage.

“If world war 3 broke out it would get less coverage.”

I’m pretty certain WW3 would get more coverage…

@ Sheila
what has having a homosexual child do with this. It’s not because you’re a homosexual that you support same-sex marriage. Some are into barebacking…

Why should I respond to anyone on my personal views in respect of this issue when the majority of Gestapo like tow rags including Deputy I’ll commission a Report Martin simply want to abuse him regardless of his answer. He is absolutely correct as Taoiseach in responding in non committal fashion.

@Darren Marcus

He gives the impression that all is well in his little world. I feel that he should look passed his thinking and feelings on this subject and try to understand what life and equality is for everyone in this land. Nothing is black and white. Nobody knows what life might throw at them today, tomorrow. He should think ahead for his family, and other families, for others beliefs, not just his, or catholism. No, one doesn’t have to be homosexual but one certainly has to try and have a better understanding on the subject and acceptance of others and what their beliefs are.

‘Box ticking exercise’ he says?
These are people’s lives he’s talking about!
What a waste of water, skin & bone!!

Christ why don’t we subject the Taoiseach to torture so that we can get yes/no’s from him on about a hundred or so issues and then hold his answers against him if they don suit us. That’s the logic behind your views on the matter. Wow what a mob.

Christ why don’t we subject the Taoiseach to torture so that we can get yes/no’s from him on about a hundred or so issues and then hold his answers against him if they don suit us. That’s the logic behind your views on the matter. Wow what a mob.

In fairness Mark your question wasn’t so good we need to read it twice :-) Regarding your question cast your mind back to the fiscal compact referendum. You may recall Kenny claiming he does his debating in the chamber in Leinster house? Last week refused to answer a question on the forth coming budget this week refused to answer a straight yes/no question. What a waste of space that man is. Here’s a suggestion why doesn’t he go off into the countryside and find a few cycle rides to attend. One of his highly paid special advisers might be able to fill in for him in the chamber. I’d suggest the deputy leader of FG but sure he has his own problems to work on.

Well said! If you contribute equally to society, society should contribute equally back.

Atleast potatoes are useful

Ah come on A Sack Of Potatoes have a lot of uses,where as Enda Kenny what use is he. A failed Teacher and never heard much from or about him till the end of 2010 cos of the looming elections and then he was in our faces everywhere we went. He is spineless, speechless ( without his script before him) he is gutless, He is like a 2 year old hiding behind Mammy’s skirts

Bit unfair on 2 year old’s Bernadette associating them with Enda I debate in the chamber or I don’t answer questions in the chamber.

*can’t understand

I’m sure dev and mcquaid never in their wildest nightmares envisioned ssm being an issue.
If they had, you’d better believe that opposite genders would have been a legal requirement!!

This is true… My point is more about ignoring the “spirit of the law” & just passing it in the Oireachtas, if ya know what I mean…

Were we allowed a democratic say on the Bank Guarantee or compensating bond holders? At least gay marriage has the backing of numerous opinion polls conducted amongst the public and not FG backbenchers!

@Eoin

I thought Ursula pushed him?!!!!!

Why do we have a right to say? It doesn’t affect anyone except the two people who are getting married. There should be no vote on this at all, it’s a private matter.

@Conor
As far as I understand it they’re looking into whether legalising gay marriage would require a referendum or not. The only reason it would require a referendum would be if it meant having to change something in the constitution, that is why we will (may) be allowed a democratic say in it. Guaranteeing the banking debts did not involve changing the constitution so they didn’t see it necessary to consult us. Rightly or very very wrongly, that’s how it works.

@Chuck
See above. If it requires changing something in the constitution then we all get a say in it. If it doesn’t then the TD’s will have to decide it among themselves, I guess. It would be more likely to pass if the public got to vote on it, I’m sure.

Just to be clear I am all in favour of allowing gay couples the same basic human rights as straight people. I just don’t like the idea that some politicians will probably use this issue as a personal campaign for votes rather than the human rights issue it is. As can be seen by other leaders trying to force Enda to say where he stands on the issue. Like I said, whether he’s for it or against it is irrelevant as far as I’m concerned as long as he doesn’t try to stand in the way of whatever democratic process is required in this particular situation.

Hear they have removed all the flower pots from the chamber on safety grounds :-)

one box, and he hasn’t ticked it.

Fantastic comment, I 100% agree.

That’s a good point Marc. I assume that all gay people in the country would vote in favour of it, if we did have a referendum. So that only leaves the straight people with a decision to make, which does equate to the straight people deciding the rights of the gay people, which does not seem like equality to me.
Also, on a side note, referring to it as “gay marriage” seems wrong too. Should we be referring to current marriages as “straight marriages”? Having a different word for it seems like marking it out as different which again seems unnecessary to me.

There’s roughly 300000 gay people in Ireland, say each of these have 3 straight friends that will vote in favour of a referendum… that’s a lot of votes! ;)

Bunreacht na hÉireann does not specifically state that marriage is between a man and a woman. Gay marriage could be legislated for tomorrow morning!

I think the Supreme Court ruled that it is currently defined as a union between man and woman at some stage? Think the case came about because a same sex couple (married outside of the Irish state) wanted to be taxed as a couple?

Maybe thejournal could clarify that?

My thoughts exactly Conor as when writing on this issue previously, I did consult the constitution and found no such provision nor definition. This reason is a cop out by the Government in order for it to avoid addressing the issue. FG fearing its Christian Democratic wing will revolt if it moves on legislating for gay marriage.

My thoughts exactly

Micky boy was too busy enjoying himself, staying in hotels in Geneva at 3 grand a night. He’d back 2 chairs marrying if he thought it would up his expenses account.

I think ultimately Mr Kenny is a pragmatist and will support whatever the majority opinion is. If he is personally against gay marriage thats fine he’s entitled to his view. Martin wanted his personal view so that he could use it against him whenever a decision is taken re this issue. At the moment I don’t think that gay marriage is of serious intra party conflict. It is irritating when people here and on other forums try to supress discussion of this issue by immediately labelling those against gay marriage as ‘bigots’ ‘conservatives’ or ‘relgious nuts’ thereby hoping that the application of these labels will cower people into submission, in essence they are displaying the exact characteristics that the purport to abhor, intolerance and bigotry. Many ordinary, decent people across the country have serious concerns about gay marriage and there views shouldn’t be dismissed to placate a minority. Having said that, I am personally in favour of allowing homosexual couples to marry. Marriage is at heart a fundamentally conservative institution as two individuals pledge to rely upon each other and not the state, allowing gay couples to marry will strenghten the institution of marriage and in turn society. How could conservatives like myself not support this?

While I agree with your points I strongly object to the granting of equal rights being referred to as “placating a minority”. People with mental illnesses are in the minority, that doesn’t mean granting them civil rights is just placating them. It should be a bloody given and certainly shouldn’t be compared to giving ice cream to a child throwing a tantrum.

I’m actually unsure if he’s against it and afraid he’ll lose the young vote or for it and afraid he’ll lose the older vote. Either way, he’s put himself in the office of Taoiseach, we deserve to know his views on issues such as this. in my opinion it speaks volumes about his character.

Well, I think that could be open to different interpretations.
Legal definition of a family would have to be defined rather than accepting what conservative pre-Vatican 2 catholic bigwigs had in mind when they used the term family

What they had in mind is irrelevant. What they wrote into law is all that matters. And in the absence of a definition, it cannot be construed to simply mean man and woman to the detriment of equality.

Article 40-1: “all citizens, as human PERSONS, be held equal before the law”

It was defined in Murray v. Ireland as involving a man and a woman (the point of this was that there was no need for children to qualify as a “family”) and this was recently enough affirmed by the now Chief Justice, Susan Denham

Well said.

Actually agree with you tbh…
Although I’m in favour of SSM personally, I loathe the mafioso like bullying that happens to those that disagree.

Michael Martin isn’t bullying him, he’s pushing him for some sort of a response. If he is against it then he can say so, people are just frustrated at how he seems to push anything slightly controversial under the carpet. We can have a referendum in a matter of weeks when the EU needs it but when a section of our own society campaigns for it they get ignored for years.

He’s the prime minister of a democracy and arguably more than anyone else, his opinions are fair game for comment. If you can put forward unbiased evidence of negative outcomes connected with gay marriage, then you’re entitled not only to be against it but for your views to be respected. If you’re advancing ungrounded arguments or simply saying “I just don’t agree with it” without explaining why, you’re still entitled to be against it but you can expect some grief from fellow commenters (or TDs if you’re in the Dail). Nobody is threatening freedom of thought but the freedom to discuss ideas and rebut the ones you don’t agree with is just as important.

“Can’t believe I’m defending this guy, but when it comes to matters of sexual morality in this country things seem to have gone a bit odd.”

Apologies Stephen, but when one Irish citizen is afforded the facility to marry the person they love and want to spend the rest of their life with, and another citizen is not, it is not a ‘sexual morality’ issue, it is an equality issue.

I agree on the general point about PC bullies.

But I don’t see how gay marriage represents an “odd” liberalisation of sexual morality. I presume gay couple’s vows will include a vow of fidelity. What could be more moral than that??

See?
The slightest hint that someone is straying from the straight and narrow and the sniffing and crooked looks begin.
Oh well. . . .

I think your being very kind to Kenny to associate thinking with him to be honest.

Haha you’re right of course, his advisors do the thinking while he sits in his high chair eating liga biscuits.

There is absolutely no correlation between those two arguments. Gender quotas are about equal representation in the governing of this country. When it comes to parenting it doesn’t matter a fig. And since when are human rights nonsense? Take a trip to Syria or Iran and then come back to us talking about ‘nonsense’. Crazy liberal indeed! Since when is accusing someone of being for individual freedom an insult? I’m quite proud of it and you’d find yourself in an awful lot of trouble without us.

I’ve tried replying to this comment three times now and it’s still not showing up, so apologies if later it shows up again in triplicate.

Anyway….. “protecting the institution of the family in the state, and maintaining the hierarchy which dictates that the most ideal upbringing for a child is by it’s biological parents”

You couldn’t throw a stone these days without hitting a child that’s being brought up by it’s mother with a different boyfriend every few months, meanwhile they might spend the weekend with the biological father or his parents, if they even know who their father is. There is no “institution of family” in this country any more. How many families are actually that preconceived idea of a family that people have? Not as many as you seem to think.
There are kids being brought up in one parent homes that turn out just as well as kids brought up in two parent homes. It has nothing to do with the sexuality of the parents, or even the number of parents. Being gay doesn’t make you incapable of loving a child, or providing a safe environment to bring a child up in.

What a load of closed minded b°ll°x!

Why not?, if the subsequent result is not to your liking will you be shouting about the unfairness of it?

Intended by whom exactly?

I trust Waterford that if there is a referendum and same sex marriage is recognized and become ‘the law of the country’ you will be happy as well?