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Andrew Tate, left, and his brother Tristan, leave after appearing at the Court of Appeal, in Bucharest, Romania, Tuesday, Jan.10, 2023. The divisive social media personality Andrew Tate arrived at a court in Romania in handcuffs on Tuesday morning to appeal a judge's earlier decision to extend his arrest period from 24 hours to 30 days on charges of being part of an organized crime group, human trafficking and rape. Alexandru Dobre

Therapist How do we challenge toxic masculinity and its appeal to impressionable young men?

Geoffrey McCarthy looks at the Andrew Tate case and the troubling message it brings.

LAST UPDATE | 22 Jan 2023

TOXIC MASCULINITY is not a new idea or concept, the story of Narcissus dates to Greek philosophy, the notion of being so self-centred or self-absorbed that other people are just to be used for one’s own gratification is a classic tale. This is where the terminology of the narcissistic personality type comes from.

Kacael et al. describe it well in a 2017 study in a behavioural medical journal: “Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is a psychological disorder characterised by a persistent pattern of grandiosity, fantasies of unlimited power or importance, and the need for admiration or special treatment.”

Social media platforms are becoming increasingly populated by individuals with toxic masculine views or narcissistic ideologies.

The Tate problem

By now, most of us will be familiar with the name Andrew Tate – the social media ‘influencer’ currently in custody in Romania. The British national and his brother Tristan were detained in late December and face charges in relation to human trafficking, rape and organised crime. Charges they deny.

If we look at Tate, he has a kind of cult following now, he has millions of followers on Twitter, but is banned from Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok and YouTube.

This can sometimes be a badge of honour for some, being a bad boy can make it more appealing to some followers. The notion of a rebel without a cause is not a new one.

His narrative however is still influencing many young impressionable boys online, with his lifestyle, persona and style appearing attractive to lots of men and boys.

To a toxic male and a classic overt narcissist, generating wealth with a persona on this corner of the internet (known as the ‘manosphere’) is a draw. A collection of men’s sites and blogs, the manosphere presents an enticing alternate reality where empathy for others is a no-no and women are viewed as property. Underlying its hypermasculinity and misogyny is the fantasy of a lavish and wealthy lifestyle – the message being that wealth, power, and prestige are rewarded by a sense of entitlement.

Impressionable minds

Unfortunately, many young people aspire to this ideal and lifestyle, they see meaning and purpose in this, to be rich and famous is somehow a sign of absolute success. I would argue however it is what you do with your wealth that defines you. What values do you hold, do you have any empathy or compassion for others?

Young people today covet social media’s power and influence, no matter how fake or false it may seem to those who remember a time when it didn’t exist. It is in essence their world. I am not wishing to cause hysteria so let me temper this by saying that there is an antidote to toxic masculinity. Instilling good values in our children is vitally important in this instance. The toxic masculine needs to grow up a bit and maybe have a little look within…

We need to look to our community for models of healthy masculinity, a good sporting coach, a good dad, a guardian, a good therapist, a teacher etc.

These systems exist already in society and are a good mechanism for giving some healthy challenges to this misogynistic ideology. If we are to push back against the pervasive nature of the smartphone, where Tate and his peers shout louder, faster and easily source a captive audience, then these positive influences must be harnessed in a conscious way.

Psychological makeup

In the classic psychoanalyst’s view, a narcissistic influencer thriving in the manosphere has deep-seated issues surrounding women, perhaps related to their relationship with their mothers. They feel the need to dominate and subjugate others to feel secure. This type of personality often comes from a value system that is completely patriarchal and sees women as ‘less than’ – it is the toxic male view.

Why then if this opinion is so abhorrent and offensive to most balanced people does Andrew Tate have such a large following? Robert Lawson, an associate professor of sociolinguistics at Birmingham City University has a few gems in relation to this. Lawson alludes to masculinity being in a form of crisis with the parameter shifts of the last 30 or so years. “You’re important, you’re needed and your masculinity is needed to fight against all of the changes that are happening in the world. The world is no longer for you or wants to invest in you.”

A lot of what Tate and his peers online are saying in some sense isn’t actually new. It’s a re-articulation of a crisis of masculinity discourse that we see back in the 1970s, back in the 1980s, through the men’s movement led by people like Robert Bly and so on, where there was a sense of reconnecting with your own masculinity as a way of fixing the world. He’s only another entry in a long line of other men who have done something similar.

What to do?

It appears that Tate is now a postmodern voice of some men, but one thing his case has done at least is to highlight the growing threat of the manosphere to the wellbeing of wider society. Now we have to ask, how can we counter this influence on young people?

If you are reading this and have teenage children and are concerned at the narrative that Tate is spinning online, talk to them about this and be open to discussion on this topic, on all of it. While the message of the manosphere is fundamentally loathsome, not all of what everyone says is discountable.

The fact that some men and boys identify with Tate and his peers doesn’t make them abhorrent, it makes them human, it serves some need, or they are searching for a narrative that they can relate to. Find out what that need is and try to understand its causes. Talk through the problems with the messages being sold to young men – ‘is it really ok not to care about others’, challenge the lack of empathy and lack of respect of women, in particular.

If someone in your life is quite vociferous about Tate’s view there may be an indication they are feeling disconnected from society. Open discussion and some personal development are always helpful here. Talk therapy helps. The world needs more healthy male role models, we need more adult views and input on our social media platforms.

If you or someone you know needs to talk to somebody professional, make sure that who you go to is qualified and accredited. www.iacp.ie has a register of qualified, accredited and experienced counsellors and psychotherapists nationwide.

Geoffrey McCarthy is an accredited psychotherapist and a member of the Irish Association for Counselling and Psychotherapy (IACP).

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29 Comments
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    Mute Jonathon Forbes
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    May 1st 2012, 3:59 PM

    My father passed away last year at the age of 54, he donated all his organs, heart, lungs, liver, kidneys, pancreas and in the end saved 6 people and prevented their families going through the same heart ache ours did when we lost him.

    It should be mandatory for all to be organ donors unless you “opt-out” !

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    Mute Begrudgy
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    May 1st 2012, 3:21 PM

    Cant remember what country it is but they flipped this organ donor thing right around by basically saying everyone is a donor. If you want off the register then contact them. This should be put into practice here.

    131
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    Mute John Murphy
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    May 1st 2012, 3:23 PM

    Yip that’s a great solution makes sense

    50
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    Mute Chopper
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    May 1st 2012, 3:34 PM

    +1

    A lot of (mainland) European countries have donation as an “opt-out” rather than something you purposefully sign up for, and it works – from a Washington Post article: “When Belgium instituted a presumed consent law in 1985, the number of organ donors nearly doubled within two years.”

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    Mute Eoin Madden
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    Apr 2nd 2013, 2:51 PM

    It is in the current programme for government, so it may happen here in the next few years. But it is not as effective as putting trained dedicated donor coordinators in every hospital.

    1
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    Mute John Murphy
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    May 1st 2012, 3:19 PM

    Great idea just wonder about the legalities of it in ireland ? Would that be enough I.E. how would they know in an accident situation if you didn’t carry a card as I imagine this will be a case with certain people who wouldn’t have both?!

    31
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    Mute Eoin Madden
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    May 1st 2012, 4:22 PM

    Currently in Ireland the decision belongs to your next of kin.

    What you have ticked on your drivers licence, donor card, Facebook, etc have no standing in law. The Donor Card exists to prompt a conversation between you and your family.

    48
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    Mute John Murphy
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    May 1st 2012, 5:24 PM

    You are assuming I’m a driver of car? What if I am the passenger ?! I don’t drive just cycle !! But thanks for the info I didn’t know that ?! What’s the point then in having that option on your licence ??

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    Mute Eoin Madden
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    May 2nd 2012, 7:48 AM

    The tickbox on your licence is there to prompt a conversation between you and your family.

    1
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    Mute Adrian De Cleir
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    May 1st 2012, 4:36 PM

    If anyone’s interested there’s an Irish organ donor app for Android and probably for I phone that qualifies you as an organ donor. I think its called organ donor ecard. Just look up organ donor Ireland in the market.

    23
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    Mute Joey Dempsey
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    May 1st 2012, 6:24 PM

    Facebook does offer a free service with the caveat of bombardment of advertising and gathering lots of info on its users. timeline was also forced on users without agreement & it brings invasion of privacy to the next level, disclosing a users decision to donate organs is offensive and for the record, I do have an organ donating card but hardly think advertising my personal wishes on Facebook is appropriate

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    Mute Mary Finlay
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    May 1st 2012, 7:45 PM

    My daughter had Double Lung Transplant 5 years ago and we are eternally grateful to her Donor and Donor’s family. As a consequence we all carry Donor Cards and think this is great idea. Would b even better if Ireland followed other European countries and had *opt out* option…and considered everyone, unless *opted out* a Donor…would save a lot of lives <3

    22
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    Mute Joey Dempsey
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    May 1st 2012, 4:13 PM

    Facebook can bite me, they have some neck. This time line nonsense is a bridge to far for a lot of users, thank god for Goggle Chrome which stops time line displaying. Facebook is ironically quite like FG & Labour, experts in winding up and alienating people!

    21
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    Mute Michael Kennedy
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    May 1st 2012, 4:28 PM

    Imagine that they give you a free service and then they have the gall to decide to make changes to do something beneficial.

    55
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    Mute Fly The Irish Flag
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    May 1st 2012, 5:24 PM

    Michael,

    If they’re not charging you, then you’re the product they’re selling.

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    Mute Michael Kennedy
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    May 1st 2012, 6:32 PM

    I am well aware of that. I have a choice to put what I want on my profile. No one is telling anyone to put something there that they don’t want to. It is very simple if you don’t want to share info don’t put it there.

    14
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    Mute Desmond Molloy
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    May 1st 2012, 4:58 PM

    As long as it doesn’t encourage someone to take the organs before I’m quite ready to part with them. Recent allegations about Kosovo Government might be worth considering!

    15
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    Mute Katrina Carroll
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    May 1st 2012, 4:40 PM

    i will if facebook get rid of timeline..

    14
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    Mute Katrina Carroll
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    May 1st 2012, 8:43 PM

    jez it was a joke red thumbs :)

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    Mute Fly The Irish Flag
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    May 1st 2012, 5:31 PM

    Although they currently have no legal standing in Ireland, Everyone should write a “living will”.

    Write down what’s to happen to you (& your organs), in the event you’re unable to consent to anything. Coma, brain damage etc.

    Sign & date & have it witnessed. Then tell everyone about it.

    That way you’ll save your loved ones the heartache of wondering what you would have wanted or making the most difficult decision they’ll ever have to make

    14
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    Mute Teo O'Keefe
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    May 1st 2012, 5:48 PM

    @ Fly the Irish flag….agree with you. That makes much more sense than having such a decision be voiced through the murky waters of Facebook.

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    Mute Teo O'Keefe
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    May 1st 2012, 4:59 PM

    I’m all for increasing organ donation, but in my opinion, this is a private choice and belongs nowhere on Facebook. Maybe I’m paranoid but imagine the ramifications ..ie: Joe has a daughter who needs a heart, Joe sees Facebook friend who’s checked off the donor info, Joe’s daughter getting sicker, Joe gets desperate, Joe manipulatively engages his friend in a series of Facebook messages, his friend says, if it was my time to go, I’d give your daughter my heart as that’s what friends would say, Joe gets desperate, plots to kill his friend, daughter gets heart based on the ‘proven’ conversation…I think these things should be left to legal documentation, not social media. Use Facebook to increase organ donor awareness, but not as a registry.

    14
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 5:24 PM

    I’d say if joe was gonna kill to get a heart for his daughter then Joe wouldn’t give a fiddlers f**k wether a guy said it on FB or not though…..

    24
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    Mute Teo O'Keefe
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    May 1st 2012, 5:59 PM

    @ Emsy: unless he wanted to ensure the heart went directly to his daughter and not some other poor soul on the donor list. Ha, blame news stories around the world for my grim imagination. But I do believe Facebook is too murky. Example: what if someone sets up a Facebook page using your name? Expresses intentions not your own? Too many legal implications.

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    Mute Teo O'Keefe
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    May 1st 2012, 6:05 PM

    Btw, I’m not making an argument against organ donation. Many lives depend on it. It’s just doing it through FB I have a problem with.

    11
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 7:06 PM

    Teo,your preaching to the converted. I hate Facebook and deleted my account a long time ago. I was just being a smartarse ;)

    8
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    Mute Teo O'Keefe
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    May 1st 2012, 7:18 PM

    Emsy, good call! I only have one to comment here- not familiar w the twitter world yet.

    3
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 7:45 PM

    I’m not into twitter either but I have followers and I follow a few too,never really look at it though. Same as you,it’s only so I can comment here or sign in to other sites

    1
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    Mute Fr Tod Umptious
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    May 1st 2012, 5:16 PM

    How much more of your life do you want to get ruled by Facebook options? I’m all for saving lives and organ donor ship but think its just FB getting some publicity or tax dodge. Soon enough your personal time line will be examined and sold to others. So what if it’s free let’s build some new ones where privacy policies are clear and direct.

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    Mute Eoin Madden
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    May 1st 2012, 4:52 PM
    5
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    Mute hjGfIgAq
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    May 1st 2012, 4:53 PM

    Cheers Eoin and Adrian, I’ll add those links to the piece.

    6
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    Mute John Murphy
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    May 1st 2012, 5:26 PM

    What the hell is an Android ??!!!!!

    16
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    Mute Helen Downey
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    May 1st 2012, 11:44 PM

    Shame that app doesn’t work on all android enabled devices. Any time I try to download it I get told it isn’t compatible with my device :( (sorry for the ot)

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    Mute Eoin Madden
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    May 2nd 2012, 7:50 AM

    John, Android is Google’s operating system for mobile phones.

    It is used on the HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy, etc.

    1
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    Mute Fr Tod Umptious
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    May 1st 2012, 5:23 PM

    Also if giving your organs away benefits others to such a degree that it should be almost mandatory then why not everything else of societal benefit. No more driving like idiots less car licenses more proof that your not a danger just a thought out there in the crap weather. From a cyclist trying not to get killed.

    4
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    Mute Alan Dempsey
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    May 1st 2012, 5:08 PM

    I was born with all my organs in my body and i’ll die with them all in. The only way you will get my organs is if you pay for my funeral :D

    4
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 5:25 PM

    You might die with them all in there but its about AFTER you die….hardly like your using them anymore…..

    26
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    Mute Blaine Ryan
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    May 1st 2012, 5:55 PM

    What if you get hit by a car? Who’s to say you’ll die with them all in. Your body would look like its been through a blender afterwords.

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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 7:07 PM

    Very true Blaine….or if you fall from a very high building…..or if your murdered in a gruesome way….. ;)

    4
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    Mute Emsy wemsy
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    May 1st 2012, 7:08 PM

    My wink at the end is a little creepy…..wasn’t meant to be

    10
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    Mute Paddy The Penguin
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    May 2nd 2012, 1:13 AM

    Facebook has become seriously uncool seems like everyone is just waiting around for the next computer nerd to get dumped so he can invent the replacement for us! Timeline ruined Facebook!!!

    2
    xyz
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    Mute xyz
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    May 2nd 2012, 8:00 AM

    switch to Myspace :))

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    Mute Desmond Molloy
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    May 1st 2012, 5:14 PM

    @teo

    Didn’t a recent Clint Eastwood go like that!

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