Totally agree Kerry!! That ejit Shatter needs to fire up the Garda Training College & get Garda numbers up!! The shooting in Portarlington was obviously planned in the knowledge that there’d probably only be one clapped out patrol car & it’s crew on duty! And the one in Dublin just illustrates the lack of worry / fear of being apprehended that these animals have when it comes to
Carrying out their murderous acts!

I agree with both of you on that one.
Also he needs to do something about the court system.
When they are arrested and brought before the court their given a real sentence not a slap on the hand and sent home with a “don’t do that again” even with your 57 previous convictions…. What joke and not the funny kind
If you take a life, you serve a life behind bars with no chance of seeing the streets again!!!!

@Dave I thought the very same thing when I read it
“a strongly worded statement” well that’ll sort them out.

Excellent comment!

Yes John but thats hardly the point as innocent people are being affected by these killings through no fault of their own either by witnessing or by misidentification, this obviously needs to be stopped.

I agree with what you’re saying, but my my sympathy for the individuals themselves is slim.

Obviously killing someone in front of their kid is appaling.

Totally agree, particularly about the zero tolerance bit. They seem to have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to tax dodgers for instance but not towards serious crime. What happened to the wave of action after Veronica Geurin’s death? Minister Shatters words are meaningless unless they are followed by action.

We don’t need Garda stations in every village, nor can we afford it. We do need a more efficient and effective police force (as you say: radios, cars, training, equipment). Even then, there will still be crimes.

What about their innocent kids standing there , any issues with that??

So you’re happy to live in a country where gun law reigns supreme?

@cathal – the kids have more hope of leading a normal life without a gangster parent, than they do with.

@ruairi – absolutely, so long as the guns are used on each other, and not on innocent parties

You certainly have a warped logic, Cpm.

I bow to your overwhelmingly convincing argument, Ruairi.

And in fairness, more people seem to agree with my sentiment, than disagree.

You do realise that one of those animals executed yesterday was, in his teens, responsible for the death of two Gardai? And, thanks to our impotent legal system, served a four year sentence and was back on the street, there was also a warrant out for his arrest for what was described as a ‘stabbing frenzy’ he embarked on in some country pub.

Forgetting your bleeding-heart liberal sway for a minute – what society needs an animal like that walking the street? What benefit is he? Why should we protect him? We’ve seen the courts can’t protect us from his and his ilk – so why the hell not, let them kill each other – there are no losers, only winners, when they do. So long as they keep it between themselves, let the good times roll, I say.

Veronica Guerin,Shane Geoghegan & Roy Collins spiring to mind Cmp and I know there are others like that unfortunate plumber (?) in Dublin. While in theory what you say sounds plausable those who are involved have no interest in minding the Innocent. The state has to take responsibility and remove these people from the streets otherwise it will descend into a blood bath.

What an absolutely ridiculous comment. You think that I’m a bleeding heart liberal because I don’t want to see people shot to death every day in the city where I live? Get a grip, please. l think that would make most people ‘bleeding heart liberals’. Newsflash: Most people in this country don’t support gun crime. I think you have totally missed the point here and I’m sure the vast majority of people in this country don’t want to see gun violence on on our streets, no matter who the victims are. That is what the gardai are for. You think that by leaving the gangsters to sort it out themselves, the problem will go away or innocent people won’t be victims too? Go read a book, Cpm. You really need to.

In all of my postings above, Kerry, I clearly state that I’m happy so long as they keep it amongst themselves.

“I think you have totally missed the point here and I’m sure the vast majority of people in this country don’t want to see gun violence on on our streets, no matter who the victims are ”

Actually, as it currently stands, the majority of people, by a ratio of two to one, support my original statement, Ruairi.

But the problem is Cpm is they don’t so it’s not a solution.

Kerry, thugs are going to kill innocent people regardless. It’s how they operate.

The great thing about when they die, is that one less thug means a lot less victims.

Cpm, do you really think the children of these gang members are going to grow up normal?

I never said that, Declan. I said “the kids have more hope of leading a normal life without a gangster parent, than they do with.”

You’re all arguing two sides of the same coin. No, gun law should not be the ultimate arbiter in this country. Equally, the law should not be so impotent in dealing with gangs that the only hope of justice is for a gangster to die by the sword of another.

Not sure what you want to achieve using the military as a part time police force. Training them in any meaningful way would be a massive and costly endeavour. Interesting to see that all the crime stats show a decline in serious crime with the exception of burglary. If they closed the Gold for Cash shops even that would decline.

If there are that many armed forces personnel sitting around idle that could be re-trained as a civic police force I’d be more likely to look at the issue of why so, especially when they’ve just announced vacancies for another 600 places to the ranks at a time when Garda numbers are dropping! The Garda College is sitting there idle, only being used for in-service training where it could be busy training up the 200-odd waiting recruits, as mentioned above by James Downey, come this time next week!! There’s your ‘boots on the ground’ right there!!

@paddy rogers

The stats don’t show a drop in crime levels, they show a drop in “reported” crime levels, alot of people just don’t bother reporting crimes anymore.

A few months back three people were sentenced to six years imprisonment each. One raped and sexually abused his daughter over 14 years, the second ran down and killed a man with her car in a rage and the third declared garlic as apples on a customs clearance form. Need I say more?!

Do you really think that the perpetrators of these public executions are concerned with John Q policeman on his beat or driving around in his high visibility Mondeo? The Gardai need to put resources into intelligence driven units, these aren’t shop lifters they are armed assassins

That’s a very misleading comment.

There is no plan to prise wedding and engagement rights from people. There is a plan to bring in a debt relief scheme, of which people can avail when they owe money and can’t afford to pay their debts. Those in possession of valuable assets (including jewellery) can afford to pay their debts and therefore the taxpayers should not be expected to pay for them.

Are you married James?

That’s irrelevant.

Obviously it’s a terrible situation where someone gets themselves into so much debt that they have to sell off items of sentimental value; but a person can’t expect the rest of us to pay off their debts while holding on to valuable assets.

Not to mention that this would just become a legal loophole whereby people could tie up any money they have in a piece of jewellery and claim it has sentimental value. Who could prove that they were lying?

My main point remains that although having to sell items of sentimental value to pay one’s debts is an undesirable situation, forcing the rest of us to pay for a person’s debts despite that person having the means to pay them is not for the common good.

So you’re not married, but an authority on the decency/indecency of having your wedding and engagement rings prised from your fingers.

Get back to us when you’re in a position to know how deeply immora such an act is.

he was talking about 60,70,80 thousand euro rings not your average modest ring. and yes im married and if i couldnt pay my bill the ring and hers would go no problem

The insolvency law covers people with debts of no more than 20,000. Would the people who fall under this category have engagement rings valued at 60, 70, or 80 grand?

Oh, and shatters own words:

Mr Shatter said no one would be deprived of a modest engagement ring valued at “a couple of hundred euro”.

In other words, pretty much every engagement ring out there, is up for grabs.

Anybody who spends more than a couple hundred euro on a ring is a moron.
Damn right it should be taken from them if they can’t pay their debts.

werejammin,

You don’t seem to understand the scheme that is being introduced.
At the moment, all of your assets are “up for grabs” when a debt is being enforced.
Under the new scheme, debts of up to €20,000 will be paid by the State if you are unable to pay. Assets not counted in calculating whether or not you are capable of paying your debts are: essential household appliances, work equipment, a car or van worth up to €1200 and other assets worth up to €400.
Anything above this is counted as an asset in determining whether you are entitled to debt relief.

The government is not going to take people’s jewellery from them, but neither is it going to hand our money to people who can afford to pay their debts by themselves.

Like I said james, get back to us when you’re married.

Oh, and this government is willing to count the roof over your head as an ‘asset’ for the purpose of the anglo property tax, despite the fact that it is not. Second home, yes, family home no.

I never said whether I was married, because it’s irrelevant. I could just as easily say that if a person doesn’t have a criminal justice qualification, their opinion is not valid on these issues. But that would be a bigoted thing to say. I’m not going to get into a “my opinion is more important than yours” debate.

You don’t seem to even understand the meaning of the word “asset”. Of course your family home is an asset. That does not mean that it is right to impose a property tax, but it is an asset. Any property you own is an asset, from a pencil to a palace.

I have only commented on the justifiability of these measures. I have acknowledged the undesirability of the situations described above, but that it is not justifiable to hand public money to help people who already have valuable assets.

You have never offered a counter-argument; you have only changed the subject and focused on my personal life.

I’d ask again so Stephen, are these top notch military units sitting around idle!?! If so, then Defence forces numbers need to be re-evaluated as do Garda ones!! Going by your Facebook page your view on the matter might be slightly skewed!

Good plan. Bring out the military. Are you one of the “National Government” supporters too? Who do you fancy as dictator for life?

Alan Shatter is not Israeli and does not represent Israel. He is Irish and Jewish. It sounds like your inferring that Irish Jews are not really Irish. Why does he need to answer for that? He is from Ireland.

That’s not how I read this question.

Your point is? Do you think I care how you interpret the question? NO.This article is about a domestic issue not Israel, Jews, or a barbaric murdering minister. There is nothing to condemn Alan Shatter for. He is simply doing his job by condemning these murders. Fuzi Le Bon is a defender of Iran and Ahmadinejad.

Is he a defender of Iran and Ahmadinejad? I wouldn’t know, and still don’t see how you got onto the rant about Irish Jews. Are you really Clint Eastwood by any chance?

Kevin I think the point is that he is the minister for ‘Justice’ for Ireland’s who’s citizens’ passports were stolen and used to commit an assassination. It’s not about his religion. He has a responsibility for justice in Ireland. Call a whitewash a whitewash. Not everyone who disagrees with Israeli policy is anti Semitic. I know I’m not.

“more dirt designed to make us think Iran is the black.army of death” – This statement from Fuzi Le Bon on the article “Supporting homosexuality is ‘for capitalists’, says Iranian president”.
@Jack – People who constantly bring up Jews, Israel, and defend evil people like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in my mind are anti-Semitic. I never said criticizing Israel makes one anti-Semitic, of course not. Alan Shatter was not the Minister for Justice when passports were stolen, to blame him is absurd. What do passports have to do with anything related to this article? It just happens to be that Alan Shatter is a Jew? They were stolen from the UK, US, Australia, and Germany as well. I have a problem with people who constantly pick on Israel and never seem to have any issue with countries like Iran, China, Pakistan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc. I have come across some people on the Journal.ie who makes statements like the following “Zionist sc*m.” “The Zionists were behind 9/11 to turn the world against Muslims.” “The Zionists are the real Nazis.” “The Jews control the media, banks, and alter the weather.” “Typical Jew.” “We must stop the Israeli regime.” People who make such statements fiercely deny they are anti-Semitic; I don’t buy that. The KKK are also very anti-Israel and claim the Palestinians are victims of the evil Zionists. Israelis were not celebrating on the day of the 9/11 attacks and did not try to storm the American Embassy in Jerusalem. I don’t agree with all Israeli policies, but they don’t deserve all the hatred they get. Israel belongs to the Hebrews not Arabs; archaeology has proven this. The European Jews are the descendants of the Hebrews run out of Israel centuries ago by Islamic invaders. There were over 800,000 Jews in Arab countries there are only 8,000 remaining today.

Kevin, I take your point. Good point well made.

Thanks for understanding, Jack.

Here’s the relevant article.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0924/1224324324002.html

Paul I agree on some level about that but to be honest its a whole other thread. All the resources that are needed to combat this gun war on our streets need to be focused on it.

Bob I maybe jumping to conclusions & you may correct me if I get it wrong. The jews are doing nothing to the Palestinians. Its the Israelis. There are lots of jewish communities around the world & here that have no part in the Palestinian issue. Your use of the word jews troubles me but I will accept your correction.

So is it Christians or Muslims committing a holocaust??? Agreed there are jews all around the world, the smallest minority of which would accept the jews are living on illegal land under an agreement made in 1915 by the jews, Americans and British. Two of which are the 2 of only 3 to deny the biggest holocaust of the twentieth century even took place and one is not the British, the third being the perpetrators (Turkey) who just happen to be the jews and Americans most reliable ally in the middle east. Co-incidence???

Wow Bob that was some answer & you manage to disprove your own point of view. You blame the US the Turks & you put in the brits as well ,although you seem to let them off. By the way Im not an expert as such on the middle east but I think the behaviour of the Israelis is terrible. However you mentioned the jews (your words not mine) America, predominantly christian. Turkey secular state but mainly muslim. So we agree the jews are not the problem. You use that term in a way that a neo nazi does. Its common amongst catholics in this country & beyond because they blame the Jewish community for deicide. You would be better to keep those views amongst simple folk like yourself. Enlighten yourself & let the racism & antisemitism go. This democracy can will do well without it.

Bob off topic. I doubt this minister can fix the Palestinian problem. Far greater men than him have tried & failed.