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Dublin: 7 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Archdiocese of Dublin proposes radical shake-up of First Communion ceremonies

The new policy document is geared at making the First Communion a more parish-oriented – and cheaper – event.

First Communion ceremonies - and potentially the traditionally white dresses that go with them - could become a thing of the past in Dublin.
First Communion ceremonies - and potentially the traditionally white dresses that go with them - could become a thing of the past in Dublin.
Image: Sasko Lazarov/Photocall Ireland

STANDALONE CEREMONIES to mark a child’s First Communion could become a thing of the past under a new policy document published this afternoon by the Archdiocese of Dublin.

The diocese’s proposals would see Catholic children make their First Communion at a regular Sunday Mass – possibly in small groups – in order to avoid the extravagance and expense that has accompanied the ceremony in more recent years.

“Parishes should encourage people to celebrate the Sacrament with the simplicity and authenticity which will help the child to fully understand the mystery of the Eucharist,” archbishop Dr Diarmuid Martin said this afternoon.

Dr Martin said the focus of the new policy was to ensure that First Communions – as well as First Confession ceremonies – were celebrated “with the simplicity and authenticity which will help the child to fully understand the mystery of the Eucharist”.

He added that when the new policy was being implemented, parishes should work with parents to ensure that the Communion event be celebrated without major expense.

Fr Kieran McDermott, the diocesan vicar in charge of evangelisation, said he hoped the new proposals would refocus on the roles of schools, homes and parishes and that he would now begin a “significant period of discussion” with the various bodies involved.

Dr Martin acknowledged that it may be some time before the changes are adopted throughout the archdiocese, which covers most of counties Dublin and Wicklow, and parts of counties Carlow, Kildare, Laois and Wexford.

Read: Gilmore: Communion allowance cut to stop ‘lavish’ spending

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Comments (89 Comments)

  • In fairness, its the parents who are the biggest problem when it comes to expenses….

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  • Very sensible, that’s how it is in most UK parishes.

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    • Let’s face it, the majority of kids are forced into first communion but don’t make a fuss once the envelopes start coming in. My kids made their first communion and have since asked ‘what was the point?’. They were all given the choice when it came to confirmation and all decided against it. Every child reaches a stage in their lives when their belief in the tooth fairy, easter bunny or santa claus is tested and the same should go with God, the most unpleasant character in all fiction; jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.

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    • Paul, that doesn’t relate to my comment at all, are you just positioning yourself near an early comment for maximum exposure?

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    • Busted!!

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    • @paul

      Isnt that man made religion that you are describing

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    • Man made religion? Is there any other kind?

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    • So, Paul, your comment doesn’t stand freely on its own. It has to be sneaked into the top of the pile. That doesn’t say a lot for it.

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    • Paul stop talking rubbish. You sound stupid and bitter. Communion is a special thing in every persons life and you a life is something you need to get.

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    • @Paul, very strong anti religious feelings, and yet you still had your children baptized and receive their first communion, seems a little hypocritical.

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    • I made my confirmation in 1974! I am a twin and the last two of 10 children. We couldn’t afford the loreto blazers when we joined the convent two years before that. So she bought our blazers and we wore a skirt and white polo jumper under the geen blazer. Straight after that the convent insisted on school uniform be worn. I know this article is about the first communion but the same could go for that celebration. School uniforms across the board! After that wear what they like for the rest of the day. Most would purchase the following year’s jumpers, trousers/skirts shirts so it wouldn’t be any extra expense on the family.

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    • ****
      I’m speaking about my dear Mother. She went with her gut feeling and what was in her purse at the time!

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    • @Oaklane1, you’re right, it was hypocritical of me to put my kids through that nonsense and my only excuse was the same one everyone in this country so often uses, ‘don’t upset the elders’!! At least my kids had the common sense not to go through with confirmation and won’t use my pathetic excuse if they become parents.

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    • If you feel so strongly why did you have your kids make their communion?

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    • I naively let them them make their communion so we wouldn’t have to listen to the grandparents and so they could make a few quid. Since then my perception of catholicism has changed dramatically. Why should I allow my kids be influenced by a myth as I was at their age?

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    • Ten shilling note….I remember that bit. Bewleys for cake and tea…home then.That was not yesterday………

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    • Sensible yes, but more sensible would to be avoid it all together. The Archdiocese of Dublin are full of cr*p. They are all about the money. This is just another ploy to get more of the flock coughing into the coffers

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  • Fair dues, this is a good idea

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    • Its been suggested at national level for a while now, good to see a diocese acting on it. The idea usually is that the children sit with their families and all go receive together. No pressure on families to participate in a sacrament, no expense forced on anyone. Just adult parents making a choice about their family’s faith life.

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    • The school my children went to insisted that all girls and boys wore a cream coloured robe for the communion ceremony. This was 25 years ago!

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  • Communions have just went over the top the past few years
    Parents trying to outdo each other and the poor kids are left feeling different if their parents can’t keep up with the jones maybe the whole big day out should be done away with the children could be taken to the church during school hours make their communion then back to school
    And if the parents want to do anything else with the children it could be done at the weekend

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  • why don’t they make a policy of wearing the school uniform for this event . If every child is dressed the same then all are equal as per the teaching of the church .

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    • This is regularly suggested in parishes all over Ireland, as is a common white shawl or gown – but parents go nuts. Most of what’s being complained about here is actively confronted by parishes every year. It’s just easier believe priests are making people spend a fortune than accept that we do this to ourselves. Or as Paul said we do the thing we hate so as not to upset our parents, but then blame the institution for making us do it. Lol.

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    • I think neither the school or the Parish should dictate to the parents when it comes to what the child wears for Communion. It’s a once in a lifetime celebration and it’s up to the parents to decide what their budget can stretch to. It’s not that difficult to get a cheaper dress or outfit especially if you wait until nearer the day when prices are slashed. I got a Communion dress for my daughter for €29.99, reduced from over €100, a cardigan for €12.50 and shoes and socks in Dunnes; it’s just a matter of shopping around.

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  • What’s this the church moving into the 21st century?

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  • Finally some common sense prevails. School uniforms, communion ceremony on a Sunday during normal mass, no preparation for it allowed during school hours… thats how to deal with it; not the vulgar displays of new money that have come to dominate communion ceremonies in recent years. And it is often the most vulgar and gaudy in so called disadvantaged areas… where no one works or looks for work yet they can spend hundreds on making their daughter Beyonce, for example, into a tarted up oompa loompa while Mam gets locked on cider along with the oompa loompas possible three fathers….

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  • Surely the point of a mystery is that you don’t understand it?

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  • My child’s school doesn’t teach holy communion in school like when I was younger parents and the child have to go to mass and attend classes on Sunday they also emphasis that over the top dresses and other extravagant expenses will not be accepted after the child has made there holy communion everyone is invited back to the school for a small party and photos with a professional photographer way better community spirit and more focus on the kids

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  • This is great news. If the parents are made to put the effort in, maybe all of the so called Catholics who pay lip service but are not actually practicing members will finally realise the hypocrisy of the church and its teachings. Put the burden on them and the vast majority will no longer take part. The church has been corrupting our youth before they have even begun to mature. Glad to also see the state stopping payouts for communions. Thats my tax euros being squandered on a fictional deity created to control all you non thinkers. Again, another reason why there will be a dramatic drop in the coming years. The catholic church is circling the drain. And I am delighted. It had its time, its now over. Only idiots would believe the absolute tripe they pedal as fact.
    Ohh and under article 440 of the Constitution it is your legal right to have your child educated in any state funded school without being forced to adher to any religious priciples.

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    • People have been forecasting the demise of the Christian church for 2000 years now there are a billion plus worldwide.in what several contributors to these comments would classify as utopia the old USSR Stalin closed churches and chucked hundreds of thousands in the gulags to kill religion.Uncle Jo is now long gone the churches are packed its as if he was never there.This has happened in many other countries with similar results.People have a need to believe in something other than the here and now.Many would say that if this is all there is we have been dealt a bad hand.

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    • From the experience in my Parish, parents are only too delighted to be more involved in the religious education of their children. I think a lot of parents think that the teachers are the experts and just need to have a bit more self confidence. Good move by the Church.

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  • Harry 01/10/12 #

    Hopefully this means they do the preparations on a Sunday too, instead of wasting classroom time on superstitious nonsense.

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  • The Irish people and Media’s fascination with religion always astonishes me especially from those who claim to be non believers and non attenders .
    This item was the number one lead item on today’s one o clock news on our national radio station and I counted three other church related items within the first twenty minutes of Broadcast.
    People need to concentrate there minds elsewhere and leave those who want to practice and do whatever they want to do with there church no matter what church that it is do so in peace .
    They are private organisations and should be treated accordingly

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  • @ derek larney Have things changed that drastically since I made my first communion and confirmation? I think I remember being offered the choice of taking the Pioneer pledge at confirmation. But it was entirely optional and we were given plenty of time to decide. I certainly didn’t take it as it was a lifelong vow. And it definitely wasn’t at first communion because I remember that day like it was yesterday!

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  • First confession. Humph. What sin has a child that age committed? Certainly none of the Ten Commandments. A disgraceful guilt trip intended to suppress.

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  • Mjhint 01/10/12 #

    “Catholic children”. F##k me. There is no such thing as a catholic child. This is indoctrination. Its another form of child abuse. My children are raised with christian teachings in a catholic school against my wishes. Their mother is a catholic/christian . I am an atheist & my 2 oldest children found this out the other day. My oldest child was upset as she thought I was going to hell. She was frightened. So whats going on is children are being thought fear. Ask yourselves, is this right?

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    • Who do you claim is teaching the children fear? If the mother is putting them through education in a Catholic institution then it’s hardly the fault of the Church that they are getting that education.

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    • Sean, in this country you have no choice but to send your kids to a catholic school in most parts of the country. I hoped we were more liberal in this country that you could choose your child’s religious education, or none of all if thats what you want. but a few months ago i saw a late late show where this problem was addressed. whenever a parent, usually foreign, complained that they didn’t want their child to educated in being a catholic, they were told by other members of the audience “this is a catholic country, if you don’t like it, go somewhere else”. To which, the audience would applaud! I have not had kids yet but, as an atheist, if any teacher pulls that sh1t with my kids they’ll hear about it. if its a public, state run school, it should not be allowed

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    • If they’re following the Alive-o religious education programme, I’m very surprised that the word hell was mentioned.It’s a long time since I’ve heard either a priest or a teacher mentioning hell. It’s not Catholic teaching anyway that atheists go to hell. If the teacher is scaring the child, it’s the teacher’s fault, not the fault of the Catholic religion.

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  • I was brought up catholic but got sense. So glad i didn’t get my daughter christened & involved in this shite!

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    • Keeping your child away from the influence of a cult is very responsible and I complement you.

      Imagine if you were passive about it and they then force you to attend church to ‘qualify’ your child for something you dont want in the first place.

      Having been caught in the abuse of children, its a great plan now to use children to abuse the parents.

      Classic cult behaviour.

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    • So everyone in Ireland, except a few thousand are members of one cult or another? You must be very wary of the majority of people that you interact with on a day to day basis.

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  • “Help the child to fully understand the mystery of the Eucharist” he says. How in the name of goodness could anyone understand a mystery, never mind fully understand it, never mind a child fully understand it. He means, of course, fall into the grips of the brain-washers that are the Catholic Church. But at least the poor deluded man is not the worst of the bunch; he too fell into their grip many years ago and is now part of the conspiracy. Less spent on expensive Communion outfits means more left over to donate to the Church even when the ordinary folk of Ireland are on their uppers. I’m fed up having to read about the pronouncements of the guys who wear tall pointy hats and skirts concerning children after all the harm the Church and so many of its ‘Clerks in Holy Orders’ have done to them.

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    • Books have been written about the “mystery of the Eucharist” and the bishop expects children to understand it. The only mystery I see is how people can still fall for this medieval nonsense and take it seriously in this day and age. Down with this sort of thing!

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    • All us Catholics must be brain-washed idiots! What arrogant nonsense. As for guys who wear pointy hats and skirts-it’s not the Ku Klux clan you know.

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  • Get rid of it altogether. Children shouldn’t be indoctrinated with this superstitious mumbo jumbo.

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    • Too right, at the tender age of 12 you are forced into a pledge to not drink or smoke before you’re 18.

      To force a 12 year old to make a decision on something they know dam all about is nothing more than indoctrination.

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    • “at the tender age of 12 you are forced into a pledge to not drink or smoke before you’re 18.”

      What? They force the temperance movement on kids at first communion? And at 12? First communion was normally around 7 in my parish.

      Are you confusing things?

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    • Children are indoctrinated every day it’s called TV advertising and by the example set by their peers and elders.Giving a child a normal childhood has become a lost art,by the way we castigate religion and replace it with the sexualisation of little girls in kiddy pageants and boys are encouraged to have footballers etc as role models,and this is progress.

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    • The pledge is not part of Communion or Confirmation at all and no one forces any child to take it. Anyway, it might be no harm if kids didn’t start drinking until they were 18 or 21-it wouldn’t kill them!

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  • It never ceases to amaze me that despite all the evidence presented to people in this country that there are still many who continue to publicly support the Roman Catholic Church . An organisation that supported and facilitated the rape , torture and abuse of children internationally . It saddens me that so called good Christians still support that organisation which couldn’t be more unchristian if it tried. I pity those people who refuse to see the Rcc for what it really is because they are also unwitting victims of its doctrine but I pity their children more.

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  • My daughter will receive her first communion next May. Having it on a Sunday in normal mass time would suit me down to the ground. We attend mass every sunday anyway. Our local priest is old school and has implied in messages to parents that those families who do not attend mass will not receive sacraments. It may be somewhat a right of passage of yester year but times are changing …

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    • Churches do not need ministers or priests of this sort the quicker he realises that he works for God and he is not God the better.Jesus never refused to forgive its about time some in the church followed his true teaching .

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    • I think the Church’s view is that many just come on the day and never darken the door of the church again. Communion and Confirmation are part of an ongoing religious practice, not stand alone ceremonies. I think this is the modern thinking, not old school.

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    • ‘Ghandi’ while I don’t agree with any member of the church thinking they are above everyone else – he makes a valid point. If you are not going to bring your child to mass at all after they make their communion why are you having them receive the sacrament ? A child of 8 cannot get up and head of to mass on their own – they need to be brought.

      Maria you have a point – perhaps this is a shift by the church to only look after it’s true followers only? I would be very interested to know where these ideas come from? are they the individual priests?, the bishops? the archbishops? the cardinals? or il papo himself?

      There are huge chunks of the catholic church that I have issue with. But as I choose to send my daughter to a catholic ethos school (granted there is no other type in my vicinity) I have made the effort to bring her to mass and will help her prepare for her communion. She herself is very interested in religion and like other aspects of her all too short childhood I will encourage her beliefs until she can perhaps open her mind to other ways of thinking.

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  • It’s a pity that the constitution doesn’t give the child the choice instead of the parents, as well as providing for resourced, coherent alternatives such as an ethics class. This exists in other systems; we are years behind. Were this the case, the numbers doing religion would collapse.

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    • They should give children the choice whether to go to school or not and the classrooms would be empty. While we’re at it, we could just abolish the whole concept of parents altogether and let the kids run the show!

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    • I think what Colm meant is that as children we/they are not educated enough to make a valid decision on what we/they want to choose to believe in life. I certainly feel violated that I was brain washed into being part of the catholic church as a child, had I a choice at 18 I would have refused baptism, communion and confirmation as I was old enough and mature enough to think for myself, look at the choices of religion and the findings of science and make an informed decision. As a child I had no choice in any of them nor did I have a clue what was going on at any of them. Comparing it to school is silly, educational is essential, a belief in religion is not.

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  • My idea for a docusoap on middle class gypsy first communions now cannot happen. Boo Hoo ! :-)

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  • It’s a shame that in 2012 religion still gets media attention rather than being consigned to the dark ages where it belongs.

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  • I’m sure glad I got my arse to a nice, sensible, secular country before my boy came of age for this nonsense. My lad’s not baptised with mystical tap water, and he won’t be getting the rest of those spells either. Unless of course, he wants to. In which case, fire away.

    And it seems to me if you have to actively bribe children with cash to partake of magical – sorry, religious – ceremonies, then you’ll be pissing off any god-thing watching. Or am I missing something here?

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  • @ Mary Conroy Byrne- Were an ethics course to be developed it would foster young people’s critical thinking skills. Students would be taught that moral decision making should be based on rationality and empathy. This is very different to the suggestion that they should defer to the scriptural texts of, amongst others, Bronze Age nomads.

    What is so wrong with giving young people a little more space to figure out their perspectives on the biggest questions in the universe? If religions have any faith in their own message they should be confident enough to convince the educated adult, not just the (intellectually defenceless) child.

    Giving children intellectual autonomy does not mean educating them in a value free context- they are just different and healthier values in my opinion.

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    • I don’t think that religion has to mean just drumming a set of rules into children’s heads with no discussion, explanation or questioning. The same thing applies when you reach adulthood. I have lots of questions about my religion and love to understand and read into my faith. I think it’s vital that children and adults are adept at making ethical decisions and have sound knowledge on which to base these decisions. Given that there are many adult converts to Catholicism, the message that is presented must have some intellectual appeal to adults as well as children. I believe that it’s great for children to discuss issues, but, without guidance, the very young are quite likely to make decisions based on emotion rather than rational thinking. The reason children have parents and teachers is to guide and assist them in navigating the moral dilemmas that they’ll have to face.

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  • Just abolish yourselves, for Chrissakes, and have done with it.

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  • There is no mystery to the Eucharist. It’s a silly childish ritual by deluded fools. The body of Christ? Christ people are gullible.

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  • I’m 30 and have disregarded “mystery of the Eucharist”

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  • Mjhint 01/10/12 #

    I agree Sean. I hold there mother responsible for sending them to school there. However there is no alternative to it were she lives so she doesnt have a choice. However the government have a role as do the church. The catholic church teaches children fear & the state is complicit. These teaching should not be thought in school. Luckily for my kids they get 2 teachings & when they are adults if they want to remain christian they can. I will offer that choice.

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  • Aren’t these Catholic rituals being organised by the same people who I was reading about only yesterday on ‘The Journal’ in the article about the abuse and enslavement of children in the Magdalene laundries.

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  • Its ok to celebrate a special day. Really it is. But its not ok to spend a fortune when you don’t have it, or to let the child forget what the day is about. Nor is it ok to dress them up like adults when they should be children. As an English catholic with an Irish catholic husband, I was shocked how it was done there. And lets face it, in the current times, doesn’t the church need to play down the occasion both for moral and economic reasons?

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  • Thoroughly enjoyable debate. I started writing a kids’ book about communion dresses and had to put the thing on hold a few years ago til the heat went out of the topic. Looks like I’ll be waiting…I left it as a short story in the end. Still waiting.

    https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/243935

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  • Hi Mary. The problem with religion, in my eyes, is that it teaches children certainty about issues where not even the probability of fact has been established. How can a question be investigated if you provide set answers from the start? Moral guidance requires a discussion of situations both real and hypothetical and this does not require religious parameters.

    Regarding adults choosing a belief system; I have no problem with that- good luck to them.

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  • I never understand why people always put forward the religion teaches you morals argument! Why not teach real world morals and ethics that apply to modern societies instead of magic that literally makes no sense! It’s also not ok to teach children to not look and view the world from a rational perspective ! If the amount of effort/money that is put into religion was funded into science in schools the world would be a more interesting educated place . . . Plus we would definitely have flying cars by now and who doesn’t want one of them !

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  • Miserable why don’t tey half the bread altogether save the

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