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Dublin: 11 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Dáil to sit at 10:30pm to debate emergency legislation on liquidating IBRC

TDs will reconvene after 10pm tonight to discuss plans to transfer IBRC’s assets to NAMA – as part of a deal to replace the promissory notes with long-term Government bonds.

Image: Niall Carson/PA Archive

Updated, 21:28

THE DÁIL is to sit late tonight to deal with emergency legislation to liquidate the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation – transferring its assets to the National Asset Management Agency.

The government’s chief whip Paul Kehoe told TheJournal.ie that the Dáil would convene at “10 or 10:30pm” to debate the legislation, which forms part of moves to conclude a deal with the European Central Bank that would replace IBRC’s promissory notes with long-term government bonds.

TDs voted this evening to extend the working today, reconvening at 10:30pm with a vote on the legislation – the IBRC Resolution Bill 2013 – at around 12:40am.

The Seanad will then debate the legislation overnight, with President Higgins interrupting a trip to Italy to be available to sign any legislation.

Staff at IBRC were told this evening that the bank would be going into liquidation under the control of KPMG, while its chairman Alan Dukes said the board had been stood down with figures from KPMG now in direct control of the institution.

Members of the ECB’s governing board are meeting informally in Frankfurt this evening, ahead of an official board meeting tomorrow – with the Irish member, Central Bank governor Patrick Honohan, reported to be ‘pitching’ the bonds-for-notes swap at that dinner.

Approval from the 21-member board, led by ECB president Mario Draghi, was then expected to be rubber-stamped at tomorrow’s meeting and finally approve the deal.

However, it now appears that the ECB is keen not to be rushed into the deal – meaning that while the legislation could be considered by the Oireachtas, a final deal may not be completely signed off on tomorrow. Including tomorrow, the ECB will only meet four times between now and March 31 when the next €3.06 billion promissory note repayment is due.

The proposed deal would see the promissory note replaced with a package of government bonds, each of which would mature at different times in the coming decades. The bonds would have maturities of between 25 and 40 years, with an average maturity of 27 years.

Turning bank debt to sovereign – and extending the deadline

Extending the repayment period would mean that while the debts would take longer to clear, their overall value would be reduced by inflation.

Crucially, it would also avert the need to make annual repayments on the promissory notes every year until 2031, which are required under the current system. Last year’s repayment was made by issuing a new government bond which will mature later this year.

The Department of Finance would not immediately comment on the nature of the legislation that politicians have been told to expect. Ironically, the Dáil will this evening debate a motion from the Technical Group which calls for the government to default on the next €3.06 billion repayment.

While most of IBRC’s deposit book has been transferred to AIB, its most recent accounts from June 2012 showed surviving deposits of €518 million – including €11 million repayable on demand and another €507 million lodged by customers with agreed maturity dates.

Though the bank has been reducing its workforce since it came into effect in mid-2011, it still had 1,031 employees as of last summer.

The promissory notes were issued by the Irish Government to IBRC so that it could access emergency funding from the Irish central bank at the height of the banking crisis. IBRC makes annual repayments on the note every March 31 – repayments which must be funded by the taxpayer, given that IBRC is 100 per cent state-owned.

Read: Everything you need to know about the promissory notes, but were afraid to ask

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Comments (245 Comments)

  • Here we feckin go. The IOU for money we don’t owe is about to be turned into sovereign debt that we do. Our vichy government will formally force us to pay european bankers gambling debts for them.

    This will hailed as a ‘deal’ and accompanied by much back slapping.

    A full writeoff of the debts that were never ours to begin with is the ONLY ‘deal’ we should be getting given what we have had to suffer to save the European manking system.

    • Spot on!

    • Have to love the timing as well. The case regarding the legality of the promissory note has not being ruled on yet and the Bank Debt protests are this Saturday. The contempt they have for our people is transparent and sickening.

    • Dmc 06/02/13 #

      Looks like Edna never grew a pair. He will remain Edna. Next time Im voting Declan Ganley. 40 YEARS OF DEBT that my future grandchildren should NOT have to pay.

    • peter 06/02/13 #

      @werjammin
      I like your comments on this article

    • tom 06/02/13 #

      This is criminal and if there isn’t a current law that can be applied let’s make one that suits. FF sold us out but FG are happy to bang the nails into coffin.

    • If it is turned into sovereign debt, then FFG/Labour are every bit as criminal as FF. They sold this country down the swanny, in order to saddle us, our children and our childrens children with the debts of rich bond-holder gamblers who should have lost.
      Which CEO from one of the Bond-holder firms,only last week in Davos, recognized our current Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, for only discussing what their firm would do to bring jobs into Ireland in the future…. (rather than discussing taking their losses like any normal company would).
      That compliment must have been on the back of agreeing a deal where the failed/expired bonds that his firm and other bond-holders firms would be fully paid for, on the backs of Irish workers.
      Not only our generation, but future generations.
      Do you as an Irish citizen want to wait 20 years for an apology from the … the future government … for all the deaths by suicides, hypothermia, malnutrition, emigration etc….. from some FF/FFG/Labour taoiseach, and say, we are sorry and never again? The time is Now… stand up to this financial terrorism. They are robbing your children and your childrens children future. It is NOT their debt.
      FFG/Labour/FF… they serve only themselves… Party first, Church second/ Bond Holders third, potential voters next, and everone else can go an swing……

      Magdeline Laundrys anyone??
      Not only were the first generation impacted, but also the next and next.
      In my opinion, this is why Kenny/Gilmore/FF have not yet to date, offered an apology to the people.
      It is you duty to obey what the neo-conservatives are telling you….. i am sick.

    • if people only knew the levels of criminal activity in ANGLO IRISH they would rip the gates of leinster house.

    • @ Cal1 Mooney, yes it will be sovereign debt but in a sense even more sacrosanct. 40 year bonds cannot be defaulted upon.

      Convert an unaffordable overdraft of dubious legality and highly questionable enforceability, which could have been repudiated without contagion damage, for a legally enforceable 40 year mortgage, watertight, and guaranteed by our children.

  • Sheila 06/02/13 #

    Gosh. Sounds like nobody trusts the Government.

    • is this an attempt to close the door to the challenge of the legality of the promissory note?

    • tom 06/02/13 #

      You have to ask Why wasn’t the bank allowed fail.

    • two reasons tom had anglo failed all the political class would have been taken with it they would have to resign ,second reason no one would have bet on ireland paying all banks bondholders in full so our politicians went out and pooled their money through a special investment vehicle and then bought these bonds on the cheap for a knock down price and then paid themselves in full .

    • A lot of Powerful, influential and well connected Irish people exploiting higher than usual interest rates would have lost massive deposits had Anglo Irish Bank failed, combined with no legislation for Bank liquidation.

      Remember, remember the 29th September 2008.

      It looks like the idea is to convert an unaffordable overdraft of at least dubious legality and enforceability for a 40 year mortgage which is definitely legally enforceable, water tightly so, and guaranteed by our children for good measure.

  • We need legislation to stop these guys having “emergency” sitting to pass bills nobody has time to read or properly comment on .

  • sure why don’t we just consolidate our existing loands into one simple monthly repayment package and if the offer is there we should take out top up loans from every jumped up backstreet money lender (cough cough) in bed with the troika

    think it’s time we stormed the dail lads, am I wrong????????????

  • Scarr 06/02/13 #

    Michael and Enda rushing through legislation? What could possibly go wrong?

    • Everything could go wrong. Selling us out again……all to save the banks! When will it stop…..we need to take to the streets,

    • Remember the last time we rushed through a decision on “Anglo”!!!
      Sounds suspect……. I reckon that our Patriotic Government will settle for a longer term….. costing our grand kids billions in the future!!!! (That’s if there are any young people living on this Island anymore!!!!)

  • so by the end of all this its the rest of us that will pay

  • Didn’t Noonan imply on Monday that there was no need to stress at this stage as there was nearly two months left before the payment was due. Lets follow Noonan’s advise and take our time with this and get it right. Most of the TD’s in attendance will not understand the technicalities so will need to examine them thoroughly before they proceed with legislation. It seems that the urgency here is to prevent any objections from the more economically astute TD who will see the deal for it is. Forgive my cynicism but if a deal is announced this evening then at least the governments behaviour following the publication of the Magdalene Laundries report will not be front page news tomorrow.

    • tom 06/02/13 #

      The germany guy on prime time last night got it right despite pat kenny attempt to undermind him. Ask the bondholders to reduce their claim and if agreement cant be made default on bondholders.
      This would help reduce out debt to more manageable levels.

  • Please god these muppets are not rushing into legalizing the Anglo bail out. They could not possibly be so stupid.

  • Great idea, rush it through, don’t debate it properly, don’t get different views, what could go wrong??

  • Is this a Quick and Dirty………. This discussion has been going on for 18 months and now they want to make an agreement tonight. This really smells, bad smells.

  • Isn’t the entire point of the IRBC to “wind up” Anglo…?
    I mean, how can the Govt liquidate Anglo when it’s already effectively liquidated?

  • This is just madness rushing through something that we the people of this Country know nothing about, but will pay for in the end.

  • So basically they are issuing a new bond turning this into sovereign debt….forcing the next generation to pay it…..the ecb loves screwing us eh!

    • Our voters elected pro-European parties (FF & FG) so we are partly responsible too.

    • I didn’t, I voted no to Nice and Lisbon, not for spurious reasons or as a result of scaremongering, but because I knew it would leave Ireland as whipping boys, I also have never voted for Labour or Fine Gael, I feel like putting my possessions in a few boxes, leaving Ireland, and letting the bank find my keys in the door of my property, this country is beyond disgraceful at this point, it’s a f**king joke

    • tom 06/02/13 #

      Gaius
      There are many having the same thoughts and for some it will become a reality out of necessity

    • I’m sick of people saying that it’s “OUR” responsibility because we voted them in. We didn’t ALL vote for FG/Labour you know!

    • ANYWAY, even those who did vote for FG/labour did so on the basis of their pre-election promises. You can’t hold the people responsible for the lies told by the government, and this sort of “you got what you asked for” crap is unhelpful and de-motivating.

  • Scarr 06/02/13 #

    Ok, basic one here; Where have I gone wrong in my understanding of the prom note situation? Banks ran out of cash and had a meeting with the 2 Brian’s. The Brian’s got onto the ecb to let them know a shit storm was coming and the eu banks were in for a bumpy ride. Ecb told the Brian’s “like f**k they are! Get your central bank to blanket guarantee them or no money in your ATM tomorrow!” the Brian’s believed them. The 2 Brian’s were out of their depth and were easily bounced into the debt which helped prop up French and German banks. Now the Irish are on the hook for tens of billions of debt of a bank that should have failed and we’re arguing about how long we should have to pay back that debt? What did I miss?

    • 92k a year plus 63k expenses is what you missed.

    • your right up to speed my friend
      and it ends something like
      our children being debt slaves to the ecb
      while our politicians who gave away our freedom retire on fat pensions

    • Well your pretty much dead on.

      Ya know I wonder would be not be better burning them, leaving the eu, reestablish the punt, devalue and take a couple of years of pain for long term gain. We are going on year 6 of this mess and its only getting worse. Iceland on other hand they are flying because they said let the banks go under.

  • Smacks of the government being aware that the initial deal done was illegal and now they are rushing through something that will cover that up.

    All I can hope for, should this be true, is that the politicians responsible be cursed until their dying days.

  • This country is turning into a joke,rushing the deal through in the dead of night,just like the bank guarantee,and look where that got us,they are going to kick it down the road so our children and grand-children will be paying off this debt that wasn’t ours to begin with.they are turning the Irish people into little more than slaves.

    • Turning into a joke? We are Europeans joke country, the micks, the thick paddies…look at them running around LOL legislating new laws to make an illegal debt…..LEGAL!! What a bunch of retards those Irish … LOL LOL
      Like a turkey looking to celebrate christmas…morons, but the greatest scandal of all is that there won’t be a single soul on the streets protesting….

  • I feel a coverup coming- rushing through laws smacks of 2008 and look where that got us

    • sure if it backfires we can rush something else through to go back to the way we were :)

    • Agreed Red Devil, smells like 2008, rush it through, no debate,

      But the optics are great, look we stayed back late & worked really hard to achieve this,, I am predicting the future here, in response to any q’s re negative part of deal Kenny “we were left with a devastated bankrupt country and in conjunction with our EU partners have struck the best possible deal for Ireland”. And by best deal he means what the Germans can live with (ECB)

    • We’re being sold out again. Dèja vú anyone?

    • It really would be nice to know what the hell they are playing at. What options are available to us ( we who are affected by this ) and why this course rather than another. And who or what is defining our choices.

      Its the mushroom treatment I bitterly resent.

    • I hope David Hall gets up early tomorrow and rushs to the Supreme Court with his appeal if the latest news is true.

    • John 06/02/13 #

      Let’s just make sure Enda hasn’t been playing a round of golf with any potential vested interests in the last few days

    • ANGLO changes hands again OVERNIGHT, so as to COVER UP AND OBSCURE, the CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES that went on in it.
      And
      The DEBTS of this PRIVATELY OWNED diseased cesspit are turned into IRISH SOVEREIGN DEBT FOREVER.

      Is that what I just read?

    • EJPC 06/02/13 #

      Call it ‘moral hazard’; its a term our politician seem to like bandying about a lot. Instead of lumbering mine and future generations with this debt maybe we should lumber the current generation of pensioners and those for the next 10 years with the debt. Simply stop paying pensions for the next ten years and make the generation culpable for this debt pay. If they want to make the promissory notes sovereign debt then let it be them feel the consequences. Ultimately it was them that voted for the current omnishambles body politic. Ultimately it was their society which created this mess. Speaking as a person in their late 20s ultimately it should not be my generation’s or any generation after mine’s problem.

    • This is just an excuse to shred Anglo’s septic, criminal database, and files, before a public expose is done on it and some big names start going to prison.

    • Aren’t they very loyal to KPMG.
      KPMG the infamous auditors that gave Irish Nationwide a clean bill of health,
      right up to the point where it was nationalized and ended up being a part of IBRC.

  • This is not our Debt this is not our Debt
    when will the goverment understand

    • M Bowe 06/02/13 #

      The go government know it isn’t our debt. They also know it illegal. The rush tonite is to nullify the Hall case as the appeal to Supreme Court is not yet registered, therefore it isn’t before any sub judis as yet. Stroke politics at its worst ever.

  • It would appear that as convoluted series of events is about to unfold. Over the last few weeks Namawinelake posted an article the general gist of which was that IBRC was effectively in breach of its Banking Licence. I speculated that perhaps it was being set up for a winding up, little did I know!

    In another post from what I picked up of it it seems that NAMA which was to take over 74 billion approx bank loans and was capitalised and given the power to raise funds to do so has only taken over about half of that amount. So NAMA still has unissued bonds which are very low interest (1%).

    It would seem to me that part of this “two step” will be that NAMA will take over IBRC lock stock & barrel and in consideration for that takeover it will issue its remaining bonds to IBRC. IBRC will then be liquidated with its main creditor, the Central Bank receiving payment for its debt in kind (the promissiory notes) by way of NAMA bonds which will have a much longer maturity (i.e. they won n’t have to be paid back until probabably 2020 or later)

    The deal will be sold as taking the obligation to pay off the state (which is not strictly true as any ultimate loss in NAMA will have to be underwritten by the taxpayer) and that we will not have to meet the interest payment on an ongoing basis.

  • Excellent, rushed legislation! What possibly could go wrong??

  • Have we learnt nothing. Our history has shown that rash legislation to deal with banking debt inevitably ends up with citizens losing out.

  • Give that can another kick down the long and hard road .

  • Seems abit dodgy

  • it has a massive implications. The bank guarantee was challenged in the high court by an Irish citizen which was rejected but the high court said that the challenge could be brought by an elected representative. Some TDs are planning to make that application to the high court (People before Profit). This has made FG and LB act fast. They’re moving the debt in the form of a promissory note to an Irish Bond and by doing so they’re making the debt the responsibility of the Irish citizen. Now they have always said that the debt is the Irish citizens’ responsibility but legally it wasn’t and by making the change to an Irish bond the debt cannot be challenged or renegotiated as legally it will be our responsibility. (That being said Enda never had any intention of renegotiating it as he’s previously said that ”we pay all our debts.”)
    So sit up and take head because not only are we going to be paying billions more over a longer time into our grandchildren’s lifetime and they’re making it impossible to have any recourse. Colin Miley.

  • This is legitimately terrifying. Imagine how terrible decision making has been since 2008. Now imagine making a crucial decision with the clock from Countdown ticking.

  • Rushing the deal through, unbelievable.

  • What the ECB. will say, let them eat horse.

  • M Bowe 06/02/13 #

    The the legality of the Anglo bonds not now sub judis with the appeal to the Supreme Court. How can FG/lab act on this before the Supreme Court rules on a constitutional matter???

  • Sheila 06/02/13 #

    Passing legislation in advance of a meeting that is going to be addressed by the Central Bank Governor. Supposing it all goes wrong? More emergency legislation to reverse tonights decision?!

  • Wow lets extend the debt that is not even ours on the irish people for forty years and keep paying interest
    The Germans got a better deal after the second world war some deal rush it through quick before the people have time to think

  • this is madness
    we are being sold down the river

    • Frank
      You’re like a little child that has had a toy taken from him due to misbehavior. Will you not simply accept that these arrangements are probably above your level of understanding and instead of the usual whinging why not let the Government do its job! Thanks.

    • Where is the write down of the debt, we are being sold another pup. This is not our debt, greece got one and so should we!

    • Paul 06/02/13 #

      They’re about to legalise the bailout before it can be declared illegal and maybe even unconstitutional. We’re about to be stabbed in the back again and RTÉ are going on about how it’s going to save potentially a billion. It’s not going to save a billion, they’re volunteering on our behalf to pay this debt which we don’t owe. The last govt acted illegally in writing the promissory note as the Dáil never passed it. They’re about to make it legal.

    • richard
      you came on here last week and basically said that the people of this country spent 30 billion on homes and holidays and they were the ones whos loans went sour in anglo.
      now i can go and find the comment if you like but i dont waste time on idiots, i just put them in there place and move on.
      my 13 year old son knows more about ecomomics than you will ever know, infact he has been the one who has being mostly replying, unaided i might add to your comments in the last couple off weeks,
      he has already outgrown you too by the look of the exchanges
      the government got a big fat NOTHING
      they have failed the people of Ireland and will go down in history exactly the same as Fianna Fail
      THEY HAVE SOLD OUT THEIR PEOPLE

    • Ryan'O 06/02/13 #

      Paul, can that be true? If it is true, and the shysters are voting on the bailout after converting it into sovereign debt (even though it was forced onto us under duress) this is still, illegal right??

      Please some one tell me they can’t vote on the legality if the bailout tonight….rushed through…..with no debate….Ohhh Jesus help us all.

    • Still no photo Richard ?

    • Paul 06/02/13 #

      I’d love to tell you that but…this is classic shock doctrine tactics. I’m off to Kildare Street. Hopefully this is our tipping point. If not now, when?

    • 100% agree with Frank

  • Overnight stay for the TDs and Senators from outside Dublin,But I bet they won’t forget to claim expenses and I nearly forgot the evening meal.

  • MOD 06/02/13 #

    If this gets voted, it will be up to Higgins to give it the final blessing, time to march to the park, this is his chance to shine

  • Down with the regime. I want to see these b@stards in jail.

  • Paying less money now but more money in the long run due to a higher interest rate incurred by putting off payment for 40 years is NOT a DEAL on I.B.R.C legacy debt or the promissory note payments it just means putting things on the long finger and at the end of the day wasn’t putting off payments on debt while continuing to borrow one of the causes of the crises?

    Also this DEAL will make for very happy stockbrokers in the City of London and Wall Street as it basically allows for a guaranteed 40 years of frenzied speculation on ALL Irish bonds and stocks (both private and semi state) on world stock markets, this speculation will be fuelled by whether or not Ireland can pay the money back in the allotted time (This happened in Argentina) And it doesn’t seem logical that we would want to open ourselves to this kind of speculation at the same time as the government privatise many semi state bodies. The privatisation of these bodies is an attempt to raise money for the state by floating them on the stock market to raise money.

    So basic economics tells us that you either accept the deal but halt the privatisation of semi states to provide stable growth into the future or refuse the deal and accept privatisation as the government has been working towards as a short, sharp shock to the economy that will lead to future growth but to do both at the same time is economic madness but that is what we specialise in.

  • If this goes through will it not save billions? Am I reading this totally wrong?

    • Ger 06/02/13 #

      Same. All the media make it sound like the State wanted the debt rescheduled but that this is causing it to disappear. Obviously there’s something we’re not getting.

    • Ryan'O 06/02/13 #

      Yes John it will potentially! But at what cost? Why is legislation needed to get a deal on the debt we do not own? And why is it being rushed through with no debate or anything? This is another scam!

    • Well if the state own the banks we do own the debt. Either way in think we need less histrionics and just wait and see what’s going to happen.

    • It will legalize the Anglo bail out. We have no legal obligation to pay anything hence we gave our kids and grand kids 31 billion.

    • What this will do, is cement once and for all the €36,000,000,000 Odious Anglo Debt onto the necks of future generations not even born yet. The traitors in the Dail will, once and for all, legislate our children and our not yet born grandchildren into paying back the Odious Gambling Debts of German and French banks.

      Ireland is being sold out by yellow skinned and self serving traitors.

    • Ryan
      What temerity do you have to suggest that proposed legislation is being rushed through without debate when the purpose of an extended sitting is to permit debate. Is all this a bit difficult for you?

    • John, less histrionics? Ya condescending git! If we had more ‘histrionics’ around the time of the deal done nov 2010, we might not be here now!! We SHOULD be up in arms at how the previous gov and the current have sold us and OUR CHILDREN down the river….. histrionics…. yeah sure lets trust the government to do the right thing by us the people……pathetic

    • Julie 06/02/13 #

      Well said Joseph !

    • Smiley 06/02/13 #

      If there’d been more ‘histrionics’ when FF were in power the situation wouldn’t have arisen.

    • After 10.30pm I’m sure debate will be top notch

  • Hit the streets. Paralyze the country using peaceful means – blockades, mortgage strikes, whatever it takes. Overthrow the regime. Try those suspected of treason (TDs and bankers), and jail them. Enough is enough. Grow a spine, Ireland. We’re better than this. Stand up for your families and your neighbours. Take the power back.

    • Shut up, you don’t even known what the legislation is yet.

    • Don’t tell me to “shut up”. We never borrowed this money. We don’t owe it. Our political class has sold us out. It’s time they face justice.

    • And no, the Fine Gael TDs CANNOT serve their time in the training unit. They’ll be in with the general population.

    • Shane, shut up. Then go back to your toys…

    • We really need hot headed idiots like you. Bring the country to a halt. Oh that’ll help. Solved all the problems in Greece and Argentina. Didn’t it?

    • Mr. Murray:

      How much worse could it get if we simply said “no”? We cannot afford to fork out €2 billion every year. Are you prepared to take a pension cut because that is exactly what is coming unless this note is dumped. It will be tough in the short-term, BUT look to Iceland as an example. The new IR£ would actually rise in value (according to economists).

    • Colin C 06/02/13 #

      In Ireland we overthrow our government at the ballot box. We don’t need UDA style bully boy tactics from unelected demagogues. Their day is gone.

    • Pension cuts? 30 years of contributions and the value slashed by 4/5ths. Salary cuts? Two followed by redundancy. And you’re asking me if I understand the pain people are going through! I think I do. But I know that paralysing the country will just cost more
      jobs and cause more misery. As for just saying no – ask them in Argentina how that worked out for them. They’re still having food riots.

  • A bit of overtime for the lads in the Dail

  • Their gonna do it again, it’s basically replacing what we owe already with a deal to pay the same over longer timescale, were gonna be still paying this “bond for another 10 years”

    It’s disgraceful that the only thing this government does is pay the banks over and over again regardless

  • Shower of wasters! So my 9 year old daughter will have to pay for this until she’s 50! He’ll no! Educate your kids folks and send them off for a better life!

  • Something is absolutely wrong here, Europe probably see that their whipping boys, aka Kenny and co are close to being turfed out of government and Europe don’t want to lose GG/LAB government who are nicely tucked in their pockets. So let throw something back to make Enda and co look good and save their arses at home, yes let close down a bank that closed anyway!!!! This bank was only kept alive so we he tax payer could pay back its debts. What a load of crap, this government must go.

  • Time for the Seanad to do the country a great service and stall this treasonous Bill. Stand up please and be counted. Ireland needs your protection.

  • Cover up to protect FG/LAB/FF and their business buddies after the debacle if the Magdeline Laundaries report. Another scam in the making.

  • I don’t really understand this – If the debt is converted to sovereign debt, will the interest payments vanish? or is it just spread out over a longer period of time? It seems a bit fishy the fact its scrambled together in a few hours. Also the fact the Dail and Senate have been told to prepare for a long night – it’s like – we will keep you here ’till we get you all to vote in favour of this – if you dont, well we will do it again and again ’till you do. Sound familiar?

    Whatever happens tonight, my own feeling is they are trying to turn an illegal debt, taken to cover up major fraud in Anglo, into a legal debt. The last bank deal done in the middle of the night brought down the previous government – maybe something similar might arise because of this, although any successive rulers will be handed a poisoned chalice, in fairness just like Enda was.

    • If the debt was illegal and they make it legal they should be personally sued. i don’t understand why the law society is not up in arms over this . surely justice for Irish people should be their main priority.

    • A bond works pretty simple. It has a face value, in this case each promissory note will be worth between 1-5 billion in its face value. This is the amount the Irish government will owe to the ECB in 40 years time. In between the government will pay most likely up to 4% every year for the next 40 years until the bond matures.

      The note itself will be worth less than what the promissory notes currently are, but the interest paid annually will likely make it more expensive than what Ireland is currently paying.

  • When they replaced the Ballot box for the Aramalite, what happened to those Aramalites. I think we need them now as this shower of wasters (plus FF wasters) are doing it again. It was just going to be your great great great grandchildren who would be paying now its just infinitum. Burn the Bondholders and FG/LAB/FF as well.

  • Someone must have winked the headlights ‘cos all the wee bunnies are now scurrying around the corridors of Leinster House preparing to foist our future generations with this unjust and imposed debt. Biffo, you skank!

  • Lets take note how individual TD’s vote on this. Be it 10 year or 40 year debt, they should understand its still not our debt. It’s not legal now and it would be treason to make it so.

  • http://youtu.be/6iaWyEuoddQ Ireland Dont Pay. Walk Away

  • Can we have any Bill coming out of this referred to the President immediately, or have we lost that power now as well?

  • This stinks in my opinion. I can’t help but get the feeling that the government have found out that the case being brought by Mr Hall has some grounding and could cause a real sh1t storm if its not dealt with quickly.

    On another note. What happens the Quinn case ?? Does it still go ahead but with Nama at the helm? And can he still counter sue Anglo ?

  • O’Reilly are you related to James by any chance, you’re also full of s#@t

  • I hope we’re not “expensing” the pizzas

  • September 30th 2008. Groundhog Day.

  • If this deal looks like we are getting stitched up then everyone better make a dash to the Dail to stop/halt it being rushed through. ..

  • Patrick 06/02/13 #

    The Quinns might be happy to see the back of Anglo !!

  • There has been very careful media management, I notice.

    The point is being made that it was an early afternoon media leak about the impending liquidation of IBRC which forced the Government’s hand.

    It looks like an attempt to convert a very, very large personal overdraft into a 40 year mortgage.

  • It’s very hard to trust our politicians I want to but the head and experience makes me say nah..

  • hope they.re stuck there all nite.

  • Matty McGrath should not be commenting on this his party got us into this mess

  • 500,000 Irish people outside (and inside if necessary) the Dáil tonight?

    I think not.

  • James 06/02/13 #

    Can’t wait to see the overtime bill

  • Jaysus!

  • EJPC 06/02/13 #

    How the hell they ever decided to appoint KPMG is beyond me. KPMG did the auditing of Irish Nationwide: a now defunct institution which ended up losing billions

  • We are proposing to exchange an unaffordable overdraft of dubious legality for a 40 year mortgage that is legally guaranteed by our children and is definitely enforceable.

  • Someone tell me, Why there’s no edit button on this site and why comments are not in the order of the time they were entered?

    • Stephen – We changed the comment system before Christmas so that the most ‘popular’ comments were ranked at the top by default.

      You can change this by clicking the button at the very top of the comments section, where you can choose whether to display comments in order of popularity or time.

    • The Troika want to see every comment as it was originally posted. Prosecutions will be more difficult if you have the ability to edit.

  • Time for the ECB to dangle the carrot in front of the donkies.

  • I bet merkel came up with some idea for the lads to follow

  • Can we have any Bill coming out of this referred to the President immediately, or have we lost that power now as well?

  • mart_n 06/02/13 #

    Talk about a comedy of errors. What’s tragic is they’ll act as if this was the intention from the start. Leaving it until the 11th hour was just them exercising best practice don’t you know

  • Rayven 06/02/13 #

    Another night of the long knives more smoke and mirrors and conniving secrecy the debt is being handed to the next generation it seems that makes it ok then I hope the David hall case will make this promissory note illegal as we know it was without the expresses permission of the people

  • On a slightly different note, will the case ibrc are currently taking against the quinns proceed or will it stop now that ibrc is liquidated?

    • I think you will find that the Quinns are bringing the case against Anglo. Not the other way around. Anglo had there last action until the Quinn case this week.

  • For the second time the spineless political class rolls over and accepts a deal whereby the Irish people are saddled with the bad investments of German and French banks. And to add insult to injury, Micky D is off on a jolly. You couldn’t make it up.

    Treason.

  • Yes, it looks like we are going to exchange an unaffordable overdraft of dubious legality and enforceability for a 40 year legally watertight mortgage which is guaranteed by our children!

  • Fools, no further comment needed

  • Oh no … this is really bad news. For Dick Spring. The man has done trojan work on behalf of the Iri… sorry, on behalf of himself, Noonan and the troika

  • EJPC 06/02/13 #

    Anyone actually interested in turning up at the Dáil tonight?

  • question,, if a bond holder puts his money in, makes a profit, does he give it back to ireland,, and if bondholder takes the risk again and makes a loss,,, why should ireland pay it back,,, am i stupid for thinking this way,, i know enda is a sorry excuse for a leader, sorry is not in his vocabulary,, but he should say sorry we cant give anymore,,, and while at it, say sorry to those ladies who were held in slavery,,, his so busy trying not to say sorry he cant think straight,,,,and i am so sorry for those ladies, only 25 percent were put in by state so rest of them will have to live with just being slaves and get nothing,, seems what enda is trying to get around and rabbit labour lmao,,, free labor ,,,,,,,

  • Time for Michael D to choose, financiers or the people.
    REFER THIS TO THE SUPREME COURT!
    DO NOT SIGN!!!!!

  • Thanks Fitzpatrick & co and I don’t trust any politician, resurrect Lemass, Cosgrave, fitzgerald and even Dev

  • Genuinely in shock at this rushed through legislation AGAIN…. It’s too serious an issue to be rushing through in a couple of hours. Only in Eire eh

  • The leak more than likely came from the government so they could ram this through. Dictatorship.

  • Late sitting, how much extra do they give themselves for this inconvenience , gangsters

    • Nothing. They don’t get paid according to the length of their day. if anything, if they’re sat in the Dail chamber all night then they can’t submit a receipt for a hotel room…

  • The shackles remain but the chain has just become longer. A sad day for Ireland yet again.

  • Sounds like something Ocean Finance would suggest.

  • I cant protest, sure Eastenders is on at 10pm and its a bit chilly out….

  • Michael D is on the government jet flying back from Italy!

  • I feel something half decent is coming. Fingers crossed!

    • I agree , its looks like the promissory note will be exchanged for a long term bond of 40 yrs or over , this can only help but of course the usual commentators won’t understand just give out ! Sickening really !

    • Sheila 06/02/13 #

      Well, if you are right, we will all be pleased. Just .. we have been here before..

    • So your happy for future generations to pay a debt which was never ours to begin with?,just asking.

    • Sheila 06/02/13 #

      Norman, you are assuming you know what the deal is. I think most of us smell a Large Rat, but a ‘good deal’ would be good. If it happens. Most legislation passed in haste leaves a nasty trail.

    • Of course not but that mess has been created already and anything that smooths the path to recovery I’m in favour of . Stretching it out to over 40 years will at least let inflation negate the interest payments that are crippling us right now . What sickens me is the constant conspiracy theories and stupid comments on this site which have no foundation in fact . It’s getting ridiculous i.e if a puppie dies well of course its the governments fault ‘ ( and I’m not a fan of this or any recent government believe me !)

    • Sheila i’m assuming nothing,having listened to the news the term “40 year bond”at a higher interest rate was mentioned.Thats all no more.But the worring thing i have heard from government several times is “Laws made in haste make for bad law”.

    • Shane is the debt legal, and if it isn’t then this will make it so, lets be sure of what were doing

    • I might be wrong but I think that ship has sailed when the banks led lenihan and co. a merry dance that Sunday night when a truly calamitous decision was made that unfortunately let my grandchildren who aren’t born yet to pay the bill . All I’m saying is that this may be a good thing to stretch things out for a longer term when inflation and a recovery will make it easier to deal with . I might of course be wrong it’s just an opinion .

    • Norman
      What will you do for a whinge if the Government do a deal tonight?

    • Rogers you ask alot of questions but answer none.Go and check your septic tank making sure like you already claimed its not leaking into the local water course.

    • Norman, national debt never gets repaid. What’s the nog deal?

    • O Reilly that is the problem this is not national debt,the ECB exceded their authority why hasn’t our government challeneged this?Finally if the news is correct it seems in simple terms very much like an endowment mortage.Interest only and very large amount owing at the end.

    • Sheila 06/02/13 #

      Norman is right about legislation passed in haste so often turning out to be bad. He is not just whinging! Hard cases make bad law, so does rushed legislation. They take 2 weeks to just plan a debate on the Magdelene Laundry report, (which will trundle on after for another few years before any resolution) – and one night to change all our futures. A big part of the issue here is that it does not matter what the oppositon says or does, this legislation will be passed by this massive government majority. Of course, Labour could stand against it.

    • aurilton 06/02/13 #

      Ooh yes, must be a deal looming and they are allocating ‘funds’ to a certain Dept …. Hmm now I wonder would it within Mr. Shatter’s Dept…. Upon his spin doctors instructions … ??? Recruiting??? watch that space

    • Labour fat chance of that my friend

  • Nice to see them working late for the struggling bondholders!

  • Are the masses being distracted by bread and circuses……like ,say, a football match ?

  • Liquidate the bank and default on the notes! And watch the dust settle… I’m scared of the future in this country if they liquidate the bank while owing the 31 billion on top of it! Crazy stunts like this is going to break this country! I’ve been watching we the people suffer in this country and enough is enough!

  • Seriously. What’s the rush. Simple economics. If someone owes you money on Friday and does not give it to you. Do you turn your back and say never again or try another day and then try another way big it’s a tenner you tell them to shove it if its a 1000 times your lifetime salary you try every way to get that cash. Especially when it was in fact their distant relation that borrowed the debt. You would just hope they don’t realise this and then say no. The ECB. IMF. E U. Troica. Can’t afford for us to say no. Just as we can’t afford to say no. But we can do better. But not when me feinners are just ensuring they have life jackets when this ship finally sinks. If this is done tonight I can’t see any good come from it. Again. Why the rush. What’s really going on. Why now. Why tonight. How bad is it that our president is flying back tonight and flying straight back out before midday tomorrow. In my opinion. And it’s only an opinion. We are phucked. Proper phucked. Like ze Germans.

  • Another 1000 for the dole Q.

  • No rush on an apology to the Magdelene survivors or an legislating for the X case (20 years too late) yet they scramble and rush this through at a moment’s notice. Pretty clear to see where “our” government’s priorities lie.

  • Well I hop they get overtime

  • Whatever this government does some people are never happy. Stop your moaning.

    • mart_n 06/02/13 #

      They could have forty fists up your hole and you’d still be telling yourself the same thing.

    • @ Just Some Guy, it pays to be sceptical, very sceptical. We should have learned this from tragic experience. We need to know a lot more.

      A very large overdraft conversion to a 40 year mortgage has to be thought through carefully. Talk of breakthrough is premature.

      The overdraft may not be legally enforceable. The 40 year mortgage will definitely be fully legally enforceable.

      Repudiating the payment obligations on the prom notes will not cause contagion or loss of reputation. Defaulting on the bonds will not be an option.

      I am over 60 years of age and I will not be alive to pay over the full 40 years. The liability will fall on my children and grandchildren.

  • We’re on the brink of a significant positive breakthrough. Yet the whingers and doom merchants continue to look for the negative angle. Proves what I’ve been saying all along. Most of these muppets are all about furthering their ambitions for their political affiliations and ideals. Not interested in seeing this country’s fortunes turn under the current governing parties…

  • Interesting times ahead.

    We aren’t going to be able to negotiate complete forgiveness on the prom note unless we play the crazy card and literally cause civil mayhem here and abroad. We might never recover from that.

    So if we are going to pay some of it, what is the best estimate of how a 40 year deal really saves us any money?

    Probably the next 5 to 10 years are the most relevant; thereafter we will be part of a federal europe anyway so the national debt won’t matter.

    I think there is a way that this deal is good for Ireland’s current and future generation, but it needs to halve our commitments for the next 10 years. Knocking only 1/3 off is still leaving us with the majority of the blame for not regulating ourselves and enthusiastically creating a bubble. As easy as it would have been for our government and central bank to impose collateralised credit limits on our banks lending, the system WE elected FAILED to do it. However we want to walk away from that dereliction of our responsibilities as a sane civil intelligent 1st world nation.

    I look forward to seeing how these negotiations with the Troika unfold and the commentary from others in unravelling what all this means for our future.

    • arb
      we all know this late night sitting is a callous backstabbing act of heading off david halls case.
      its beyond contempt and at this moment i’m sick to my stomach that the government has turned on its people.
      I would go so far as to say it is an act of treason

    • We don’t know that Frank. You are suggesting it.

      Highly unlikely it gets decided tonight I hope. FG would be fools to rush it through – there is no reason to do so, unless they fear the David Hall case. Where have all our other pious politicians and media been in supporting that case being on a far faster schedule? Oh yes, focused on national bullsh1t like corruption with penalty points, lonesome gardai filling out forms in villages and having a hospital for every 50 square miles. Talk about re-arranging the deckchairs on the titanic.

      The German people, quite rightfully, will very quickly mount a legal case against the ECB acting against their interests if it is in beach of EU rules now or in any future circumstances, whatever the context. So we should not behave otherwise if there is wrongdoing.

      It will be a perilous gamble for FG to try to pre-empt the David Hall case. FG would be far wiser to let the case proceed. Otherwise they will forever have the unknown outcome being thrown at them as a ‘what could have been’.

      Even if FG do act in advance, it is not clear that it would disrupt the David Hall case anyway. If the prom notes are found to be unconstitutional; then that may void any subsequent steps taken to sovereignise the non-existent debt.

    • Arb a well considered and enlightening comment without sounding hysterical i hope you are correct and FG has the sense to take account of David Hall’s action,it just may have the desired result the country is clamouring for.It would be terrible to compound the dire mess that FF created.

    • excellent response
      the hall appeal hasan’t ‘officially’ been lodged and i fear the worst
      i say this honestly
      i would rather take my chances in the courts with the people on your side than sign this into law

    • David Hall’s case is legally very strong but his apparent lack of locus standing is a major impediment.

      I accessed the Oireachtas website but the Bill is not yet published. Therefore I don’t yet know what is proposed. It is understandable and perfectly rational that there is so much scepticism, real mistrust and lack of confident expressed in the majority of the posts. In the past, we were too trusting and too gullible. Therefore, it is a sensible and prudent approach to assume the worst, be highly interrogatory, critical and analytical.

      We are addressing the calamitous consequences of the night of 28th and 29th September 2008, a night about which there is no transparency. So, let us all be very curious, cynical and on high alert.

      We need to know what is happening, what is to be done and how it is to be done.

      I reserve my views on this but one thing that I am convinced of is that the prom notes are not legally valid and enforceable.

    • arb
      did you hear what peter matthews had to say
      the one person in government who understands the ramifications of this deal

    • since they came to power enda kennys government have been fighting tooth and nail to keep stop anglo being wound up quickly costing us a fortune and today they appoint KPMG as liquadator
      what makes this worse is
      this is the same KPMG who audited irish nationwides books and signed them off without noticing a gaping hole of 6 billion in a total of 11 billion turnover
      we are being well and truly shafted

  • Are they getting paid OverTime for this?