From the perspective if Germany and the other solvent EZ countries, is that such an unreasonable position? Why should be get a debt reduction if we can function without one?

Because we the Irish have bailed out the German and other European banks and covered their ill advised loans Nikolas.

What Kerry said.

@ Kerry – true, but that was a done deal. I’m not taking about the friendly thing to do. I mean that, as Ireland can function under it’s current dint and repayment levels, then it would make more sense to divert relief to countries that look like they’ll tip over the edge. From inside Ireland, Ireland’s in a mess. But from a European perspective, Ireland is now relatively stable, and is far more stable than Greece or Spain, maybe even more stable than Italy. Whether it’s fair or not is irrelevant, they fact is, from the outside looking in, it can be said Ireland doesn’t NEED a debt reduction in way way Greece did. What’s more likely to happen is that either the repayment schedule will be lengthened or a percentage of the bailout that wen’t to support banks that are now still operating will be temporarily held back and by the banks in order to to be lent out to SMEs to encourage growth and job creation. Stop looking for things to be fair, from the EU or any burocratic structure. It isn’t't, it never was and it never will be. People really can’t be that naive to think that Santa’s coming because we’ve been good boys and girls. It’s about the survival of the EZ, the Euro currency and the EU as a whole, not about being fair.

Agreed in principal.Still ,spin sourced in denial at the moment is hardly the response one expects from those negotiating on our behalf. Realisation of what appears to be the facts would be an advantage to formulating tactics to deal with the situation as it is now presented.The situation is fluid and Kenny and co seem unable to adapt to the ever changing situation.Even with ones back to the wall aggression is a required component of the skill set needed to deal.Listen ,wait and hope is hardly a strategy.

@ Cy – my general rule if thumb is, when an EU-level statement is made and when the Irish government make a statement about an EU-level agreement is made, the EU-level statement tends to be based around fact and the Irish governmental statement tends to be based around speculation. It might be more pessimistic to go with the EU statements, but they tend to be a more accurate indicator of what will actually happen.

The Irish Government has fallen into the same illogical trap that many commenters here regally fall into; confusing the truth with what they would like the truth to be, and confusing a truth they don’t want to hear with untruth. Just because we don’t like the reality, it doesn’t mean it’s not real, and condemning the actions of current governments doesn’t automatically create a better alternative.

It is not wrong to assume your elected reps are telling you the truth.Experience has shown us that it is a very difficult skill to master ,if it can be mastered at all, to understand the true nature of the political statement. This applies across the board equally to the political statements made by their counterparts in Europe,for instance Merkel (random choice..ahem!). One could then assume that no statement is in anyway truly factual. It is the fluid nature of the facts that seems to cause the most confusion.Having said that, The Irish politicians have come back with interpretations of events that have been so far off base one wonders were or how they arrived at these statements in the first place. Its an apples and oranges argument that can go on and on,I know, but Kenny and Noonan are way ,way off base this time,and they know it. Retrospective recapitalisation was not even discussed in their most recent meetings.It is on record. Search me!…I give up…Time for coffee!!…maybe even a small brandy.

I’ll happily join you, as long as I take a small(ish) whiskey. It is Sunday afternoon, after all :-)

The Grinder

Those of us who provide our names with contributions to this site are entitled to ask why you should be entitled to constantly whinge and criticise and bemoan the actions of our elected Government. Who are you really?

@Paddy, my name is as fictitious as your own but my frustrations with the lies we are told are entirely my own.

More like
JOBS MINISTER RICHARD Bruton has insisted that the agreement between EU leaders on addressing Ireland’s bank debt still stands despite the Irish government having absolutely no negotiations with EU leaders on the issue.

People who vote for FF are idiots.

FF are the ones talking about denial FFS???

Well if its a group of people in the dail givin the government hassle, we need them, regardless if they are a bunch of headers

Lads grow up. You’re like a group of petulant children. You don’t have to vote for them to acknowledge them when what they say makes sense. I certainly won’t be voting for them again, but I am able to admit when they’re doing something of some value.

After the hammering FF took in the last election they will be working as hard as they can to regain credibility, or at least trying to appear to be..
Let them, let them work their hairy fat asses off, hopefully they’ll make some head way and then we can still not vote for them next time around :)

I agree with your statement – but it is scary that despite having voted FF out, the Irish people are clearly still in the position of not having any real governance. Merkel says we will not get our banks recapitalised from the ESM fund, clear as day, and our leaders’ response to the Irish people is ‘ah lads, she didn’t mean it’ ?! We do not have real leaders.
Half a billion euros of Irish people’s money has just been paid to the ESM last week – and our government have put it on the record that this was “in accordance with our obligations” I don’t know about you but I’m not sure how we can be obligated to something that will not benefit us.
( source: http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/%28dailindexmemberlookup%29/20121009~WRF?opendocument#WRF04200 )

FF/FFg/Labour … Consistently letting the Irish people down since 1921

Voters need to vote for any of the above, if they want to change the way this country is managed.

Look it’s simple. Why would they write off these debts of perpetual debt? Ireland’s as a country signed up to the bailout of Zombie banks. We are tied to that contract.

What were fianna fail at at all? Beggars belief! Surely they could have got a better short term deal. That one decision has and will have a long term negative impact on the development of this country.

I can’t live in a society where everyone is at each others throats. We need to fix this problem. That should have started with NO vote in. The fiscal compact treaty.

because we’re paying it. why would they write it off?