Ireland may reopen ‘modest’ Vatican embassy in future, says Gilmore

30/01/12 2,568 Views 60 Comments

Image: Gregorio Borgia/AP

IRELAND MAY RE-OPEN an embassy in the Vatican whenever the public finances recover, the Tánaiste Eamon Gilmore has said.

Gilmore has acknowledged that the closure of the Holy See embassy – which the government estimates will save it €845,000 a year – could be reversed whenever the State can afford to reopen such an embassy.

“The government will continue to review our diplomatic network and it may be that, as public finances recover, we will at some time in the future be able to reopen a modest resident embassy to the Holy See,” Gilmore told FG backbencher Pat Deering.

The secretary-general of the Department of Foreign Affairs, David Cooney, has been appointed as the non-resident ambassador to Ireland and is expected to present his diplomatic credentials to Pope Benedict later in the year.

Fianna Fáil’s foreign affairs spokesman Seán Ó Feargháil said the government’s approach to the closure of the Holy See embassy had been “completely incoherent”.

Ó Fearghail pointed to recent media comments which suggested EU affairs minister Lucinda Creighton was backing calls for the embassy to be reopened – and accused the minister of “attempting to ride two horses”.

Creighton was trying to “give ministerial leadership in the Department that has made the decision, while currying favour with angry backbenchers who realise the mistake and want to see it reversed,” he said.

The incoherent approach of the Government and apparent refusal to simply acknowledge the mistake that has been made cannot be helping the country’s prospects.

The Department of Foreign Affairs understands that an invitation to Pope Benedict to visit the International Eucharistic Congress is still being considered by the Vatican.

Gilmore has previously stated that if the Pope intends to attend the congress, the government would issue him with a formal invitation to visit the country.

Read: Bishops express concern over relations between Ireland and Vatican

More: Pope Benedict “tired” and “weak”

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Barry 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 33 178

I’d rather they don’t waste money on such a pointless embassy, its clear the Vatican has little or no respect for the Irish government, its people and those that were doing investigations into what their representatives were doing.

Reply
Eileen Gabbett 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 8 97

Hilarious ! Another U turn Gilmore ……

That whole act of taking on the Vatican was a ploy
in my opinion , to give people a false sense of security.

Reply
- David Higgins 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 71 20
  
  This isn’t a U-Turn. It’s like saying that restoring health cuts in the future is a U-turn.
  
  There’s a difference between principled decisions and cost cutting decisions. The embassy closure was a cost cutting measure.
- Unitedpeople Ireland 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 24 65
  
  …And nothing has changed – maybe got worse instead.
  
  It should STAY closed!
- Eileen Gabbett 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 8 30
  
  David H
  Whatever floats your boat , but don’t forget that we are hosting the Eucharistic Congress this year ,so I say again this was a ploy on behalf of the government to get the populace thinking that they were doing the right thing .Now they are doing a U turn to save face on the world stage.
- Rommel Burke 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 1 28
  
  David, you’re not seriously putting this decision on a par with health cuts are you? or any of the other cuts which affect people in their daily lives? If you are, then the reversal of this cost cutting decision should be last on a very long list!
Paul Ó Dubhthaigh 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 6 24

What’s funny about this is the building that is currently the Vatican embassy isn’t been gotten rid of. Instead it’s becoming the Embassy to Italy (with co-ambassador role for Vatican). The whole difference is that the ambassador is double jobbing eg. been ambassador to Italy and ambassador to Vatican.

Reply
- Galway 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 1 17
  
  Ah far as I on the Vatican do not accept ambassadors that are already ambassadors to another state including Italy. Open to correction on that one though.
- bethehokies 03/02/12 #
  
  Report this comment 0 0
  
  Not technally true. Unter the latern treaty, italy cannot accept the same ambassador as is serving the holy see and vice versa
Unitedpeople Ireland 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 21 65

Why?
We are no loss without it.
We financially are if we do! €845,000 a year!

Its not like we have that money just to spare on these fools!

Reply
- Unitedpeople Ireland 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 18 63
  
  We can’t afford teachers – and they want to spend what little money we have on these prats?
  More government stupidity!
- Eileen Gabbett 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 3 22
  
  They could have put that money trowards the Health cuts
  as someone had mentioned earlier
- Peter 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 2 10
  
  Ye ur right. Let’s get more advisers for Leo, a bus full and a gag might do it
Begrudgy 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 19 57

They should sell this embassy and then replace it with a caravan parked in St Peters Square

Reply
- Sheila Murphy 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 4 5
  
  begrudgy, I don’t often agree with you but…………………
  
  lmao very good!!!!!
Gill Jones 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 19 32

Here’s a thought, if the Vatican want an embassy here, can’t they fund it themselves? Do other countries fund our embassy’s ? It’s not like there’ short of a few bob. Can’t imagin many phone calls to the embassy for lost tickets home!

Reply
- bethehokies 03/02/12 #
  
  Report this comment 0 0
  
  Gill, you have shown a fundamental lack of knowledge of a) the issue and b)diplomacy. This is about the irish mission to the holy see. As it happens, the holy see is one of the busiest in the world. Only Russia and China have no dedicated ambassador while a few others have dedicated but non resident ambassadors. Gilmore has placed us in diplomatic circles, a small step above the aforementioned nations……
Mattie the man 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 12 19

A portaloo and pay for it with counterfeit euros

Reply
Norman Hunter 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 5 24

Spot on Eileen another U turn by Labour only it was done to divert attention from the lies Gilmore and co told.

Reply
Matthew Mark 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 90 22

It my faith and the faith of many here. Money or no money, it should be reopened.

Reply
- Iain Murray 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 9 61
  
  Ambassadors and diplomatic relations with religious organisations are not within the remit of the government.
- vectorsector 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 7 66
  
  How does the existence or non existence of an embassy effect your faith? Faith is a personal choice. Not something that should cost the tax payer close to a million euro.
- Rommel Burke 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 6 37
  
  Then club together and pay for it!
- Ian F. 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 19 37
  
  Matthew, why should your faith cost the rest of us, especially those of us that don’t share your childish religious fantasies? If you want to praise your spaghetti monster, you can do so in your own home or in one of the many churches in the country. Why do you need an embassy? You Christians have a very odd sense of logic sometimes.
Gerard Murphy 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 13 39

I’m all for re-opening the embassy, once our trade with them reaches levels of other industrial countries. (Never)

Reply
- Hanly Sheelagh 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 12 16
  
  Ian F, we are supposed to have freedom of speech, freedom to express our religion and the right not to be insulted regarding what we believe in this country but more and more we are having to listen to this kind of drivel from people who want to be respected for having a belief in no god or religion. Currently we have such a person taking a case against a bishop from Knock for jus mentioning that such people as you, Ian exist.
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 2 10
  
  You are right Sheelagh, we do have a right to freedom of speech and religion.. Let me tell you a little story..
  I was baptised, not even a month after my birth. Simply so that I could attend the local school. My parents are not very religious, and never attend mass. At school I was communed and confirmed – I was not informed abstention was an option.
  
  When I was sixteen I found another form of spirituality that fit in more with what I actually believed. I had always found the logic of what I was taught to e irreconcilable in my head. But I am still registered as a catholic. The first I heard of “Count me Out” was when the Vatican changed canon law to prevent me from being counted out.
  
  So, the absence of an embassy for a religion that denies me my freedom of religion is not a bad thing. The absence of an embassy complicit in covering up years of child abuse is not a bad thing. You still have your freedom of religion and your freedom of speech – you can attend mass and defend Catholicism as is your right. But in light of the Vaticans blatant disregard for these very human rights you speak of, I cannot support the re-opening of this embassy.
- Matthew Mark 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 10 3
  
  Hanly – I chose to ignore Ians comment as it was childish. But your response is great. The right to have your religion respected unfortunately does not apply to Catholics or Other Christian denominations.
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 5 6
  
  Ah now Matthew Mark, are you trying to claim that Christianity is the poor lone persecuted religion?
  
  Funny that, seeing as how the Catholic religion has been responsible for the persecution of almost every other religion and indigenous spiritual practice the world over..
  Ad to that the Vaticans complicity in covering up all that child abuse and you can hardly claim that Catholicism is criticised unfairly.
  
  To criticise those actions is not a personal sleight on you, you are free to believe what you wish, but to lay on the false victim fallacy is just wrong. Especially in light of the apparent hatred directed against Muslims based upon little more than propaganda.. Obviously no one learned anything from any genocides of our past.
- vectorsector 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 4 13
  
  Hanly, Matthew Mark (and probably feckin Luke and John) I’m afraid you are misguided. Nobody has the right NOT to be offended. It’s in fact the exact opposite. I have the right to offend you and you have the right to either disagree or not listen. Don’t be so arrogant as to think people with a different opinion should keep it to themselves.
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 1 3
  
  With regards taking offence
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
  
  He put it better than I can..
vectorsector 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 3 9

“attempting to ride two horses”!? Who’s ridin’ horses now?

Reply
William O'Shea 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 7 13

Hey Gilmore I’m seriously worried about your mental health! Your schizoid behaviour indicates none of your personalities are dominant enough (or permanent enough) for the responibilities you greedily grabbed when you betrayed those who voted for you. Is there anywhere in you the staunch socialist you paraded when in opposition? At this stage I don’t know which of you to address when I implore you to get the f^*K up off your knees!

Reply
- Norman Hunter 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 5 9
  
  Gilmore bought and paid for, now following orders from his bosses in Berlin and Paris.
- john g mcgrath 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 0 1
  
  Gilmore hmmm Gilmore where did I hear that name before?
Shanti Om 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 16 38

Hang on a sec, I’m confused..

Don’t we already have a Vatican embassy in pretty much every single town in Ireland? Along with ambassadors in frocks and collection plates?
Why do we need any more?

Reply
- Unitedpeople Ireland 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 12 17
  
  …Because some still want to kiss ass all the way to Rome!
Ian F. 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 15 27

I just love how our politicians say one thing and do the opposite. Yet so many people still have blind faith in them, just like they have blind faith in the criminals in the Vatican. This place is tainted enough… we need to get the Catholic cartel out of this country for good.

Reply
- Unitedpeople Ireland 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 8 28
  
  …And out of the constitution!
- Matthew Mark 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 7 3
  
  ….Then all our woes are solved!!!!!
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 2 7
  
  Well Matthew Mark, it may mean that we can have some people get into politics who at present are exempted. Judges, TDs etc all have to swear on a bible which is discrimination against perfectly capable people who simply do not believe in the Christian or Jewish god.
  
  If our constitution holds that we are all equal, then all references to religion must be removed. Otherwise the constitution contradicts itself.
Frank Bourke 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 7

Alright so, that be 2050 or thereabouts the way these twerps are running d’conomy. Even the holy See can spy that.

Reply
Colm Mooney 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 10 11

appalling craven u turn in face of a minority of right wing catholic fundamentalists…disgusted!

Reply
- Matthew Mark 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 9 6
  
  Correction- Not a minority, not right wing, and catholics aren’t fundamentalist.
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 3 11
  
  Catholics might not be, but some of those in positions of authority within the organisation of Catholicism definitely are.
  The Bishop of Tenerife tried to blame children for being abused. The Pope has tried to keep condoms out of the third world. And then there’s the whole covering up the abuse worldwide, refusing to accept responsibility and make reparations for their wrong doing – why exactly are the Irish people footing the bill for the actions of Catholicism’s leaders?
  
  Surely these men in their palatial homes are like the Pharisees that Jesus himself was sickened by? Hypocrites, Liars, Thieves and followers of the Commandments of men.. By all means man, follow that Jesus fella, he will lead you out of that corrupt organisation.. Didn’t Jesus hate organised religion?
- Colm Mooney 31/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 2 6
  
  so roman catholics are not fundamentalist then..spuc, youth defence, knights of columbanus, the ne temere decree that forced non catholics to convert to enable them to marry a roman catholic, the forced catholic upbringing of children of mixed marriages, the denunciation of two roman catholic priests in drogheda for concelebrating a remembrance day service with the local church of ireland rector, their visciously vindictive campaigns against divorce and a womans right to choose..get real man, fundamentalists are present in ALL faiths
Sheila Murphy 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 6 17

A 71 yr old Frenchman, Rene LeBouvier, is in the process of taking the Catholic Church to court to nullify his baptism; the appeal by the Church to his initial victory is pending. If he succeeds, it’ll have big implications for the church; it’ll have to offer a way out.

The Catholic Church has been, and still is, operating under that principal that it has lasted for 2000 years and will continue to do so……..

It’ll be interesting to see if Rene LeBouvier wins, how many worldwide will follow………………….

Reply
- Shanti Om 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 1 11
  
  Here’s hoping, I want to be counted out of Catholicism seeing as I never asked to be registered in the first place!
- Matthew Mark 30/01/12 #
  
  Report this comment 5 2
  
  It actually will be. Now let’s talk about minority figures….
Marlon Major 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 6 0

Don’t be ridiculous!

Reply
Adam Magari 30/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 7

Eamon Wobblemore. Typical smoked salmon socialism. When confronted with conservatism on a grand scale, back down and make out you were really on their side all the time if it wasn’t for … Fill in the blanks. Wobblemore placates Roman Catholic reactionaries. Sherlock bats on behalf of the music industry cartel. Howling is under the dead hand of the trade unions. Shortfall sides with the vintners on alcohol access. And all of them agree that the last cent should be rung from the taxpayer to keep the Croke Farce deal afloat.

Reply
Jack Driscoll 31/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 4

The Vatican will never accept a diplomat sent by Eamon Gilmore, because he rode two horses.

If it had been one horse, that would be a monogamous relationship, so a few hail marys would be enough. Riding two horses? No, that’s taking it too far. They’d have to confine him to a monastery for a few years, until it all blows over. ;)

Reply
Shanti Om 31/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 0

What I don’t get is the amount of Catholics who have obviously never read the bible!!

Jesus HATED organised religion, he called the Pharisees hypocrites and followers of the commandments of men. He told his followers not to congregate as the Jews had done – he basically said that the Catholic Church was the last thing he wanted.. Yet here we are, with a Pope who claims to be gods right hand man, while completely ignoring the teachings of their saviour, it’s like they’re saying Jesus was wrong..

It’s funny, most of the people I have met or conversed with who were Christian say that Catholicism is not Christianity, they’re quite against the Pope and all his hypocrisy.. Anyone who has any understanding of the Christian scripture would realise that the Vatican is an abomination and an affront to the teachings of Jesus.

By all means, believe in a god, have a personal relationship with it – just don’t think for one second that these cross dressing, pedophile protecting dolts is any closer to it than you.
There’s no need for the Vatican, never mind it’s embassy (and that’s not my verdict, it’s Jesus Christs!)

Reply
Michael E Burke 31/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 3

@ Shanti Om: I am in total agreement with you. Jesus preached a just society in which we, as individuals, would care for and love one another. A society freed from superstition, intolerance and inequality.

Unfortunately, those who came after Jesus decided to ‘interpret’ his message (‘St’ Paul being particularly note-worthy) and once Constantine adopted Christianity as the State religion the corruption and greed soon crept in!

Reply
Shanti Om 31/01/12 #

Report this comment 1 1

Agreed Michael. I’m not Christian but I’ve debated enough of them to know that Catholocism and Christianity is like Cheddar and Feta, they are both cheeses, but the origins and make up are completely different.
It’s a pity, that Jesus fella sounds alright, it’s just the oppressive and guilt ridden religion that sprang up around his name I take issue with!!

Reply
Shanti Om 31/01/12 #

Report this comment 2 1

Ps, I find the fact that it was written around 400AD and that the Council of Nicea got the last word on what went into the book very telling.. I very much doubt the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke or John were written by the apostles themselves. To treat the bible as a historical document is almost as illogical as the stories contained within it (and as for the old testament, most of that is plagiarised from earlier sources such as the Ancient Sumerians – mind you in their version yahweh and Adonai were two different people and the serpent was the good guy who led us out of slavery to a false god.. Go figure)

Reply
bethehokies 03/02/12 #

Report this comment 0 0

Shanti, there is a case in front of the dpp at the moment regarding incitement to hatred by the bishop of raphoe. Mods….. shanti’s comments and others should be immediately deleted or edited as they also could land themselves and your online news feed in a world of manure for the very same reason. I for one would be happy to take a test case…. I cannot stand for this intollerant hate driven commentary. Be advised that i am actually not taking the mick… some comments here are disgusting to a Catholic

Reply
Shanti Om 03/02/12 #

Report this comment 0 0

Bethehokies,
Thank you for that information..
May I please ask you to point out specifically where I have incited hatred here?

Reply
Shanti Om 03/02/12 #

Report this comment 0 0

Ok.. Having done a quick browse on google I now know what you mean by the Bishop Of Raphoe..
May I point out, I don’t agree with this Colgan guys method. It’s a very heavy handed way to make a point. I realise he’s turning the tables, but the bishop was merely pointing out what the scripture suggests, he’s not personally responsible for the doctrine of the church! My sympathies are with him.

The thing is, you can say that as a catholic you find certain comments offensive, and that’s your right. The issue is when people think that their right to not be offended should be enshrined in law.

Taking offence is entirely subjective. What offends you may not offend another. What delights you may offend them. For example, I have reason to be offended by the existence of the Church, but that doesn’t mean that I can demand it be destroyed or silenced, we each have the right to freedom of religious expression.
Having said that, by the nature of the Abrahamic religions, each one precludes others from their right to this freedom by demanding that their god is the only one and to disbelieve this is heresy. And canon law has been changed to deny me the right to leave this church that I was registered into without my informed consent.

So I apologise for misreading your comment, I realise you were not accusing me of incitement now.

But again, as sorry as I am you may be offended, sadly it’s just part of life. I’ve been offended by the way people of my faith have been persecuted and portrayed by the Catholic Church! But it doesn’t do anything. So I’ve learned not to take it so personally, why let someone you don’t even know have so much power over your emotions? They haven’t attacked you personally (and if they have that’s entirely different) they’ve voiced their opposition to an organisation you are affiliated with.

I hope that I have managed to explain this in the way it is intended, I mean this entirely with respect. Any of the comments I have made above all relate to facts, and were never intended as a personal sleight on any of those who have faith in this particular religion.

Reply
bethehokies 04/02/12 #

Report this comment 0 0

Doesnt matter… same logic applies… some comments here are indeed an incitement to hatred. There was one comment here which appears to have been removed which reffered to faith as a boil on ones arse which needed to be eradicated. If thats not incitement tohatred, I dont know what is. You yourself woiuld do well to accept that you shouldnt insult ones faith. I do not insult you faith or lack of faith, which ever it may be.. its about time that tolerant ireland woke up and realised that it is as intolerant of the old ireland we just left behind…..

Reply

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