So has the government …. Several months ago!!!

@terence was that the bomb that vradkar was talking about going off??

@nimah I think it was the bomb outside Mary Lou’s office

Good point, a lot of other countries hold elections at the weekend. Is there any reason that voting does be held on Thursday’s here? Surely a better turn out if held on a Saturday or Sunday.

It’s the establishments fear of the younger vote. Plain and simple. Democracy my arse.

Was that not one of the pledges of the current government before the election to move to the weekends to make it easier for people to vote?

Students have no excuse. They had plenty of time to change their polling station for this referendum. If they really wanted to vote, they’d do it. It’s not good enough to make that excuse.

Students are mostly finished college now anyway and polling station can be easily changed.

In one way I think the less students that vote the better as half of them dot have a clue about politics…

Chris, that’s a sweeping generalisation. The students are a class of people this referendum will affect most intensely. I don’t think it’s right to sneer at them for not changing their address, when most only live in student housing for eight months, often returning home in the interim. Running a public vote mid week is a shambles for everyone, but it really hits the youth vote, and they’re the ones facing very significant financial and economic problems in the near future. Generalisations about lazy students won’t get us anywhere.

Aisling, I am a student. It doesnt take that long to change where you vote, just because they only spend 8 months there (twice as long as they spend at home by your logic) is no excuse if they really want to make a difference. I haavent changed mine for this ref because i am undecided on what to vote..

I normally hate sweeping statements but in this case I think its true..

Home for students is their permanent address. If they change their polling address every time they swap houses they’re permanently on a supplementary register and some might get lost in the system along the way- its inefficient. And regardless of that, the issue I actually take is your sweeping generalisation that most haven’t a clue about politics. We could say that about every group in society if we wanted, and give out about people having a vote who haven’t a clue, but that’s unfair and unrepresentative. People are actually smart enough to decide for themselves, and they’re entitled to without taking gross measures to do so, and without being sneered at- full stop.

This is deliberate to prevent students and young people from voting, as they tend to vote against the right wing conservatives who run the country.

Change your address OR travel home and get your vote in OR accept you don’t have a clue. Those are the choices.

This government believe that they need to cut the eligible students out of the election as they would probably vote no. Best way to do that is have it between Monday and Thursday while they are all away in college. Some colleges are finished I’ve been told. Should be a rule that any and all elections are held on a Saturday. Bigger point is that our government are spineless liars who do an embarrassing job of representing Ireland in Europe. We seem not to matter

Weekday voting was the norm long before “this government”.

Now that that’s out of my system, I can happily ignore the other trolls.

Weekday voting is the norm, it’s not a big conspiracy. I completely agree that it makes more sense to hold it at the weekend though or at least on a Friday.

You mean it’s been the recent norm.

Brilliant metaphor ! Made me laugh out loud .

” keep kicking Sleeping Beauty’s glass coffin and hope the bitch wakes the fck up.”

At least one of the seven dwarfs won that one

What a complete load of condesending nonsence…

yes Declan your post generally are now trot along

Declan
Why don’t you take a chill pill and relax. Seriously Declan do you not think people should get up and make the effort and go out and vote , or is that an awkward question for you to answer? It would make democracy harder for the puppet masters to ignore of course …..

Hear, hear. Excellent post.

Deirdre
I have researched it , I have read , I have listened and I have decided. I felt I was being pushed one way , and it was not until I did my own research that I understood exactly what it will mean . I have heard the lies from one side and I saw how the other side were being ignored and spoken over by the media and opposition . Please vote with your conscience.

Deirdre your undecided how to vote, and your looking the Internet for answers, good luck with that, but can I suggest you read the reverse side of your voting card, in my opinion that says it all . It will allow anything Europe Demands. Vote No

@Deirdre,
http://european-council.europa.eu/media/639235/st00tscg26_en12.pdf
The Treaty itself, first ten pages are more agreements on what the the treat below stipulates.

http://www.european-council.europa.eu/media/582311/05-tesm2.en12.pdf
The ESM Establishment treaty which we are automatically signed up for being in the euro-zone but waiting to ratify it into the Irish books later this year. This is what the Govt. and Yes side are so focused on as access to their bailout fund and hence requires a good read of it, the treaty starts on page 9. This bailout they seem adamant we’ll require has conditions and certain membership conditions.

Article 8.5
“The +obligations+ of ESM Members to contribute to the authorised capital stock in accordance with this Treaty are +NOT+ affected if any such ESM Member becomes eligible for, or is receiving, financial assistance from the ESM.”
That’s an initial €1.3Billion euro and once they request the full €700 Billion pot, members have 7 days to transfer the desired funds, in Ireland’s case that’s €11,145,400 000 which we will have to borrow at interest at similar rates which we currently borrow at, worsening out debt and making it more realistic we ourselves will require “bailout” (or another loan + interest) that’s if there is anything in the pot left by the time its up and running later next year, by then we will have to see if Spain’s larger banks are bailout out or who ever else will require large bailouts.

Article 25.2 page 41, Article 32 to 36 – page 45 on, should be read and understood.
Article 43 relating to Board of Governors should be queried and asked who is to be appointed to this position. More “competent” bankers?

The final page shows the “Subscriptions to the authorised capital stock” for each country.

Deirdre

I would also like to agree with Derek. It is my firm belief that you should understand the ESM treaty which the people dont get a say in. If we dont get a say in it, it is very important that we understand how the ESM will actually work. Ireally cant stress enough how important it is that you click on Dereks 2nd link to read the ESM treaty. Skip the preamlbe if you dont have time to read it all. Pay particular attention to
Article 8 – Capital Stock
” 9 – Capital Calls
” 10 – Changes in authorised capital stock

Article 36.5 –
Staff of the ESM shall be subject to an internal tax for the benefit of the ESM on salaries and emoluments paid by the ESM, subject to rules to be adopted by the Board of Governors. From the date on which this tax is applied, such salaries and emoluments shall be exempt from national income tax.
6. No taxation of any kind shall be levied on any obligation or security issued by the

I forgot to say that you should also pay attention to articles 30 to 36 aswell

This isn’t directly related to the treaty but I found it good, its the bank bailout/bond/promissory note situation explained in layman terms.
http://thechatteringmagpie14.blogspot.com/2012/01/oh-dem-bonds-in-laymans-language.html

Like the bailout, the only ones to benefit from this treaty will be Germany in the end. It’s design is designed to fit their economy nicely. It would have been tough for us to meet its terms in the good times not to mind when we are our knees now.

We will of course have to pay back every single billion loaned (With INTEREST) to us, including the cost of making private individuals debt a sovereign debt which we all must pay for again and in all likely hood is the reason we are in this severe mess.
Now is the time to open your eyes, and step back from the ledge. We have been lead by European banks and their cohorts down this path and why would you want to continue to be dragged further into their debt.
Don’t believe me, ask yourself who gave Anglo the billions it threw at developers? The sums they were lending broke the very core rules of lending and what happened to them? Oh Nothing Did. WE the people who saw none of these billions were made cover their loses against our will imposed on us by Germany.

“WARNING: Your investment may fall as well as rise” Well not in this case!

This is a critical point in Ireland doing something for Ireland, for it’s children and it’s future.
“Stability” will be short lived. Yes to more debt, No to having to deal with the debt we already have.

Yes or no won’t change austerity, no may encourage a growth policy, but it will ensure we keep our soverignty in fiscal matters into the future the essence of Independence for any nation. After 2014 if enda and eamon haven’t suceeded it will be just one more promise broken. If europe is still functioning we’ll still be in it.

Brendan,
This post or journal.ie in general no reflect the general mood among voters. All the polls have been pretty consistent… add to this this independent private polls that the political parties have been running and the figures are still the same.
Finally PaddyPower has a ‘no’ sucess at 8:1 this morning and a yes result at 1:25.

Declan Paddy Power paid out on a no to Lisbon I and had SF on 1-7 to hold their seat in Dublin SW in 2007, neither of which happened. So the bookies are not always accurate.

Edit: they paid out on a yes to Lisbon I I mean.

Corks 96 FM did a text pole. Aprox 2200 people responded and the result was 81% NO and only 19% yes. Other than the few Yes voters on here, I only know one person who is voting yes. My brother in law is a member of the Labour party and even he is going against the party and voting NO.

The words “independent” and “political party in the same sentence made me laugh out loud….

What did it say ? Have you a link for the piece ?

Good read indeed, thanks for pointing it out

Here Susie,
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/05/201252874716394428.html

Good read – thanks for sharing.

Thank You Derek and Hugh .

It defo should be a Saturday vote in future, kids wouldn’t have to take a day off school to allow their school to be used and associated child minding problems that gives some parents and 3rd level students living away from home wouldn’t have an excuse not to vote, me, i will vote after getting some kip, it was a long night

Odd. I’ve been living here 18 months, am British, registered to vote and have received my card for today. I’ll be voting.

How so Ian? My wife is british, here since 1yo and she can’t vote. It’s not simply a case of registering, you must of gained citizenship at some stage to be able to vote in a referendum that directly effects the Irish constitution?! Can you tell me how you can vote please? this is very strange!

Ryan, I honestly don’t know. I don’t have/have never applied for Irish citizenship. I live here, work here, pay tax here and am married to an Irish citizen. That’s my portfolio in brief and yet I have always been sent a polling card. I don’t see why I shouldn’t be entitled to vote in this instance either considering the subject matter of the referendum and that it will directly affect me just as much as it will affect anybody else living here.

I’m also British and never received a card. When I checked the Vote.ie website there’s a Q&A on the home page for the fiscal compact treaty which says, “Who can vote in a referendum?” and it says “all Irish Citizens who are registered[...]“. It doesn’t mention EU citizens, so I assumed I couldn’t. I would have liked to have had my say, but will have to wait and see, like the others unable to vote today. It’s a terribly impotent feeling! I hope that all who are registered and able will have THEIR say, today.

Ian, there is no way you can vote in this referendum without being an Irish citizen fact! Are you saying that you are not an Irish citizen but got a polling card and voted anyway?

I haven’t voted yet, but I have received a polling card and I will vote. No idea how I’m entitled to it, but if I have been sent a card then I must have been deemed eligible, therefore I shall vote.

This is compleatly unbelievable! I can only take you at your word that you did intact receive a polling card and even though you know that you ate not entitled to vote that you would do so. I will be following this up with the necessary officials, you do realise that having a polling card whilst not entitled to vote makes this referendum null in void! Can you follow me on twitter and DM me so we can get to the bottom of this. And if the journal staff wouldn’t mind making a log of the conversation and also DM or email me.
Thanks

I actually have two votes. My wife moved our vote years back so now I get a vote at home and a vote from my Da’s house. That’s not constitutional either. But would be a huge plus if I ever decide to join Sinn Fein ;-)

Same boat as you Erin. Been here for 13 years now, family, run a export business employing 4 people. Pay a ton in taxes, but sadly don’t have the money to get citizenship.

Must be very time intensive to put a signature on a couple of forms to approve it (hence the cost).

Just to make it clear from my side Ryan, I believe if I wasn’t eligible I assume I wouldn’t have received a polling card. I’d be interested to know why I’m allowed to vote just as much as you are. However I do not consent to Journal Media Ltd. using/distributing my comments re: S4.2 of The Journal Media Ltd. Terms of Use. I’m not after a row, in fact I’m very interested to know the answers too.

Ian,
As far as I’m aware domicile from country of birth is only for tax purposes and doesn’t regard voting rights of citizens. Im aware that you may not want the journal to inform the necessary parties and distribute the comments which is why I asked you to DM me via twitter. I have a screen capture anyway, If you are as serious as I am regarding this matter I should hear from you in a matter of minutes. Please Dm or email me at panoptic.photography@gmail.com

Chillax, it’s clearly just a mistake, happens all the time, loads of dead people get voting cards too. Constitutional referendums are for Irish citizens only, if he has a card then someone’s messed up somewhere

As another Brit who’s lived here for donkey’s, I am certain that non-Irish citizens do not have the vote in a referendum. But you wouldn’t be the first I’ve heard of where they made a mistake and sent a polling card anyway. Happened to me on the first referendum after I arrived in the country, but since then I’ve moved several times and it was only at that first address where I had the referendum vote. Personally, if they made that mistake again, I would quite happily cast my vote. The fiscal compact affects me as an Irish taxpayer whether I’m a citizen or not.

If he’s married to an Irish citizen, then is he not entitled to citizenship anyway?

Ian do you hold dual citizenship. Are one or both of your parents Irish?

@Erin, it’s not a couple of thousand euro. In fact if you’re married to an Irish citizen, it’s less than €300.

Ian do you hold dual citizenship which would be the case if one or both of your parents are Irish. This is a list of how can vote in which type of election

The right to vote is as follows:

•Irish citizens may vote at every election and referendum;
•British citizens may vote at Dáil elections, European elections and local elections;
•Other European Union (EU) citizens may vote at European and local elections
•Non-EU citizens may vote at local elections only.
You must be registered at one address only and you must live at that address on 1 September before the register comes into force. If you live away from the address at which you are registered, (for example, if you are a student living away from home), you will need to contact the registration authority and give them your new address.

If you leave your address but you plan to return there within 18 months, you can continue to be registered there, as long you do not register at any other address.

Overseas voters
If you are an Irish citizen living abroad you cannot be entered on the register of electors. This means that you cannot vote in an election or referendum here in Ireland. (The only exception to this is in the case of Irish officials on duty abroad (and their spouses) who may register on the postal voters

@Fiacha – No, marriage to an Irish citien does not confer any automatic right to Irish citizenship. The law with regard to Post Nuptial Citizenship was changed by Michael McDowell such that Irish citizenship through marriage is now only possible via the Naturlisation process

It’s very expensive, this citizenship. There must be some discount for families ffs!

Erin, I thumbed you up by accident, meant to give you thumbs down for that silly comment.

You don’t want to be a citizen but you think you should be entitled to a vote? Geez…. cop on.

Completely agree with you. There are people in the world that would die to have the right to vote and then there is the people that are to lazy to vote which then bitch about the result.

Maybe you should think of the policies in the treaty and how if they had been implemented earlier your friends wouldn’t have had to leave. I guess those “austerity” posters worked after all.

You have been brainwashed…what will voting no do to change this? If we vote no we continue on as we are, we don’t magically start spending more money?? Austerity as we are now experiencing will remain?? Your reason for voting no makes no sense

And voting Yes so the govt can stick their collective snouts in the ESM trough, borrowing MORE money we can’t afford DOES make sense?

We need to put the brakes on this run away gravy train before we run out of track.

Vote No and let’s sort the mess out now instead of bequeathing it to the next generation and the one after

I agree with you scrap CP, I just hate this bullshit of saying that voting no will end austerity. Absolute nonsense!!

Chris none of the NO voters have said that voting no will end austerity, in fact we know it will make it worse in the short term. I personally am voting No for many reasons, one of those being that Mario Draghi stated on the 3rd of May that when the treaty is passed we WILL be handing our fiscal sovereignty over to Brussels. Another is that I dont know where we are getting the 11 billion euro to be lodged into the ESM. Ratifying this treaty DOES NOT automatically entitle us to money from the ESM as any country can veto the payment to any other. Given that Bankia in Spain currently need a 19 billion injection, meanwhile the head of Bankia is entitled to a 14 million euro handshake – yes 14 million!!!! Spanish bonds are slowly creeping to 7% and when this happens their debt will become unsustainable and this is looking more and more likely everyday. The 700 billion ESM fund wont last long and then we will be expected to put more money into the pot. I could go on with my list but I wont bore everyone be repeating them all.

Heading out the door shortly to go and cast my NO vote.

Lovely biased piece in the IT. Interviewed 4 people coming out of polling stations. A PhD economics student and a GP, both voting Yes. An unemployed woman who “will just vote against the govt” and a student “who doesn’t understand the Treaty” both voting No. The Yes side will no doubt say this is reflective of the reality. I’m very lucky to make a lot of money, I’m well read up on the treaty and I’m voting No because a Yes is going to bankrupt the country.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0531/breaking3.html

Sorry Mark, That wasn’t meant as a reply to you post. The Reply was too close to the Post. Love the “Merde”.

@Scrap Croke Park: How will it bankrupt the country? Honest answer please, no lies.

yes or no please just vote or don’t come here moaning about result

voted at 730

I have voted no. Everyone I spoke to before and after I voted also said they were voting no.

Is that Reg Holsworth from Coronation street in your picture? Lol

If you can’t be bothered to leave the house to vote, just txt the word ‘YES’ or ‘NO’ to 53231. Txts cost 25c with 20c going to Dáil xmas do.

i voted no, so did everyone i know

Voted early this morning. Voted yes (as did everyone *I* know – guess it’s a case of birds-of-a-feather?)

fair point Chris, I was just discussing that very thing with my father, neither of us could afford to go to college

Same in my family… but I don’t see the link?

A No from me, had enough.

Absolutely Alan mulvey it’s the only time peoples opinions actually matter!

Only incentive to vote YES is continued borrowing, while this preserves the incomes of those directly or indirectly feeding from the govt expenditure trough, it only digs the citizens of the state into a bigger hole, the bigger the hole the bigger amount of our sovereignty and wealth it takes to try and fill it. At the behest of EU powers, an elected government bailed out banks and borrowed enormously to do it, simple arithmetic dictated that the same people having been paid in full by a gombeen state on their private speculative bets soon realised that our state was a busted flush because of it and would not provide any further funding, the only people that would provide funding are the same who insisted on the imposition of the speculative private debt in the first place and now want you to vote yes. This was our first “bailout” and despite the fact it was intended to “get us back to the markets” it is now clear that it won’t. The govt are using the fact that it wont to get people to vote yes having done another u turn on and we are now told it will be another 30 billion in the immediate two years after this bailout ends that we will really need the ESM to provide, and sure you’d be mad not to vote for it!

We elected this govt to assert the will of Irish Citizens on this issue of assumed private speculative debt, it being as unsustainable as it was unjust, they instead chose to assert the will of the powers that be in Europe on us.

In return the govt get cheap loans to dig the debt hole bigger and continue funding to those feeding excessively on the state expenditure trough, senior civil servants, medical consultants, all the big law firms, pharmacists, big pharma, consultants, the big 4 accountantancy firms, farmers and the people who were in the very least so appalling negligent in their responsibilities to this state that got huge payoffs and now enjoy even bigger pensions. They will all vote yes and we go deeper into the debt and dependency hole. Voting NO will not change any of this straight away but reality of this unsustainable debt will be faced one way or another. It should have been dealt with long ago but we either deal with it eventually because it will certainly deal with us. Dealing with it will not be easy, easy is to throw away our sovereignty and our dignity visa vie the assumed private debt, keep borrowing, keep doing what the powers in the EU demand and hope for the best. The harder choice is to confront our debt, cut our cloth to fit our table, say no to unjustly imposed speculative debt or those who financed the repayment of it and stand on our own two feet they way any self respecting sovereign nation state would.

A no from me too – hopefully I’ll have nothing to moan about!

Lets just hope Germany don’t give the 2 fingers back and stop paying for our dole, pensions, guards etc. etc. etc… Cause by August we out of cash and the Germans who will get the cheque.

Would you ever cop yourself on Declan for gods sake…… We are in hock to Germany for roughly 150 billion..

“as a way of giving Germany and our government the two fingers” – I understand your anger and frustration but that’s not what this referendum is about. Vote on the central issue as you understand it.

Don’t mind Declan, Chris, he’s a member of fine gael and has been trotting out the same scaremongering soundbites the whole campaign.

Declan excluding the banking debt we will have a current budget surplus projected in 2014; We have to negotiate down the bank debt and a no vote is the only way. I voted no btw.

I am not a member of FG… So let that be the end of it Trueleft..
Leaving the bank debt to one side we need 10 – 12 billion more that we take in in taxes a year to run the country.. The EU is lending us this money…. Thats it in its most simple form

yeah and taking into account we already need to borrow that how do we get the 1.27 billion we need to pay into the ESM? thats the least we will have to pay. Where would we get the 11 billion if we had to pay it? which in fairness with the state some EU countries are in its looking quite possible we will have to pay it. Truth is we would have to borrow money to put into a fund that we are 1) not guranteed access to because even if we vote yes we still have to apply to get money from it and 2) not guranteed there will be enough money, if any money, left in when we need it.

I reckon Declan thinks the Germans will lend us the money. What’s a few billion among friends after all?

Wonder what we’ll do when the bill falls due…

Michael
Well said , some people wont bother and I think myself that if only people cared half as much as Ni Riogain, we would be in a lot better place …. Fair play.

If your not sure which way to vote then don’t make decisions for the rest of us by voting no just don’t vote at all.

No, don’t do what this idiot says. If you don’t know what way to vote, don’t vote.

Shame on you Stephen for trying to manipulate which way people will vote. Take your lies elsewhere.

I remember all those jobs we were promised, don’t remember many of them actually showing up, just thousands of people leaving the country every week. So yeah, we should vote no to get a bigger pile of lies for the repeat! WYF!

No, he’s right. If you don’t know which way to vote then vote to keep our constitution the way it is.

And which side are the geniuses in this referendum?

Voted No. And feel good about it. This country needs to find its backbone again.

This country needs to find money!

This country needs to find a true representative of the people of ireland not Europe!! Edna aint cutting it! imho

Even if they run a second referendum and get a second no vote they’ll claim a double negative makes a positive and call it a yes.

No David this country needs to EARN money

No David Higgins this country needs to stop giving money to banks and bond holders. Euro 2.5 billion last Monday. Guess what David I just found some money!!

heard you the first time

No you didn’t :D

There is an agreement between the UK and Ireland for citizens of one country resident in the other, part of that whole shared history thing :)

Since I’ve lived here I’ve had voting cards through for everything over the last 18 months. I thought I was eligible for this referendum as I’m now married to an Irish citizen (born/bred). I guess the thumbs down votes I received were possibly because I mentioned my nationality? Considering I live here, pay tax and intend to see out the rest of my days in Ireland I think that gives me sufficient rights to vote in Ireland.

Na people are addicted to thumbs downs.

Ian,
I’m really interested in how you can vote? As i’v said in a post above my wife was British born but lived here since 1yo and she can’t vote as she is not an Irish citizen even though she married me, it does not mean she is by default. She can bite on local and national elections and has done so but not on matters that directly effect the constitution?! How ever my polish neighbour here 5years got his citizenship in April and he can vote, but I’m curious as to why you can vote? Maybe I’m missing something if you can tell me because she would have loved to vote ?

Ryan, no problem at all, I’ve answered your previous post above. Not sure of how much help it will be though, sorry…

Sorry, I was slightly wrong.
UK citizens living in Ireland can vote in elections, but apparently not referenda.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/introduction_to_the_irish_system/right_to_vote.html

Ian, I think you might be a blip in the machine :P

I don’t suppose it makes a difference if you are domicile to your country of birth too does it? Maybe that is the blip? I don’t know. I just know I have my polling card and will use the opportunity today.

@Ryan O’Neill. Not trying to be fascecous, but if your wife has been here since she was 1 year old, can’t she apply for naturalisation? Then, just like your Polish-Irish neighbour, she would be able to vote

Can we all vote in the American Presidential election in November? Why not!!! It affects us a lot you know.

@Paul, if you don’t know then read the treaty, go the Commission web site etc and vote from an informed view point

Stephen – you need to go back to school and learn how to read!

LOL Stephen advocating a no vote.

Big man, your mother must be so proud

PaddyPower in to 7/1 from 8/1. Squeaky bum time

I presume the difference is that Betfair’s price is calculated simply on what people are actually betting on. Paddy Power, on the other hand, will also be taking the likelihood of the outcome into account when calculating their odds. Which, apparently, is still looking like a yes…

Probably sean. Its gone out to 10/1 now so if PP is right its a lost cause

Paddy Power have stopped taking bets….why?

There’ll never be another Vote of any description if its a Yes

Lucky if we have mid 50s…..

That’s good Sean. That means only the hard liners will turn out. That’s the no side btw. Most yes voters are reluctant. Thank goodness for a rainy day. :)

What constituency as a matter of interest?

Eamonn, Cork SW. Reada, would not consider myself a hardliner on most things but do feel strongly about voting which is why I am glad this was held today and not posponed on some had been calling for.

Why do people give out about voting on Thursday?
‘yes, it would be preferable…’ stop there and you’ve answered your own question.

Not sure about that. The pensioners I’ve spoken to are hoping their grandchildren will be around.

Did you serve mass this morning too?

A collective sigh of relief at Goldman Sachs.

Bolg & Sean, your replies made me laugh out loud on the train

Don’t forget to cc Enda with that Keith ;)

Good man Keith, it seems to have been the highlight of your life. Did you sleep over outside clutching an Enda Kenny doll? Wow, the first in your Parish to throw away your economic sovereignty entirely, bet your grandparents are son proud.

Yes for Lisbon and Yes for Jobs

For anyone who naively believes we are not the joke of the world, have a look at Keiths post again and think about it

You mean the first or second time they ask us?

Can’t understand why I’m getting so many thumbs down for not voting in something I can’t vote in.

Silly downthumbers.

Don’t worry, brainwashed sheep tend to do that

I’m in the same boat, can’t vote, although I certainly would if I could

PJ, I’m not sure sheep can hold a mouse in their hooves.

Damocles, i think people thought you were entitled to vote but just weren’t because.you thought that the powers that be didn’t care.

I thumbed you down for the “doesn’t care about my opinion” line.

We are having a referendum because the system does care about your opinion. This is your chance to voice it.

I think he means he’s being taxed in Ireland, but is not entitled to vote.

There are plenty of disenfranchised, including all our emigrants.

Censored has it right. I’m not entitled to vote in this, despite being fiscally invested in the country.

Have you seen any of the comments on that, they would be pride of place in Punch magazine!

Yes. I used to comment on the DT but stopped as it was sapping the life out of my very soul.

Maybe you ought to take the fight to them., I’m not going to.

I’m sure your half countryman, Ed, will be grateful for the hits.

I think your absolutely correct not to enter the comment board there either, it’s sad that a prominent paper in the UK still has so many xenophobic anti-irish readers

Interesting article, thanks for posting the link. And yes … the comments. Anyone who thinks we are NOT a laughing stock please click above.

I read them aswell – absolutley and unashamedly racist and I reported 2 of them.

Why yes?

Because Maura didn’t read the treaty and she saw photographs of Enda Kenny holding a hurl and a baby so trusts him and believes he is a proud patriot. When Enda Kenny was advised to keep moving his head to the right when reading a speech to add effect and honesty, a speech prepared by his three speechwriters, Maura believed he was talking honestly and cared for her, loved her even. Don’t expect Maura to ever respond and explain why she voted yes. Maura is the reason democracy exists and is tolerated by the elite, they know only too well that there is always a 60% + majority of Mauras everywhere

I’m not from the No side, per se, but as I see it there are 2 routes being suggested to growth:

1. Borrow (Yes side)
2. Tax (No side)

Pick one.

At the behest of EU powers, an elected government bailed out the high yield bondholders of private banks in full and borrowed enormously to do it, simple arithmetic dictated that the same high yield bondholders having been paid in full by a gombeen state on their private speculative bets soon realised that our state was a busted flush because of it and would not provide any further funding on the open market, the only people that would provide funding to Ireland are the same people who insisted on the imposition of all of the speculative private debt in the first place and now want you to vote yes. so you can borrow more from them and keep trying to pay back all that imposed speculative private debt.

The “bailout” was meant to allows us to repair our fiscal balance and “get back to the market”. This government despite earlier saying they fully expected to go back to the markets now accept that the markets won’t lend to us and we will need at least another 30 billion (half the initial bailout) for the first two years after the initial “bailout” and the only place to get it will be the ESM.

Meanwhile a lot of the money the govt is borrowing is being spent on overpaying large section of Irish society either directly or indirectly far and above what people performing similar services are paid in the countries lending us the money. Whether we vote yes to keep the charade going or Vote no to try and negotiate a sustainable resolution, the reality of this debt visa vie what we as a country actually earn will be faced and we will either default or negotiate a sustainable resolution with all involved.

This same Govt was elected on a promise of representing the will of the Irish People on this assumed debt to the Powers that be in Europe, instead they have spent their time representing the will of the powers that be in Europe to the Irish people. By his own admission Enda Kenny never sought a deal on assumed private debt and its unsustainability, we are told by Lucinda Creighton that is our debt now we must accept it and move on irrelevant of their election promises to the contrary, the undisputed injustice of it and most importantly the fact that even if we wanted to pay it all we simply cannot.

Sorry Lisa , that was a bit long and not specific to your question. With regard to a NO vote as an alternative to being anything other than turning our backs on Europe I say this. We are saying NO to the permanent imposition of the speculative bets of private individuals on the citizens of this state, the same way Spain is saying no to that Idea now. If the EU can write off a significant portion of Greek Debt when that Greek Debt was borrowed by Greece and spent directly by Greece, Ireland cannot be expected to pay all the private debts imposed at the behest of Europe on us. We want to be in Europe, we have and are continually prepared to repay our own genuine debts but we are not willing to destroy our economy and our dignity.

This isn’t really an EU vote. I voted yes to Lisbon, but no to this treaty.

It’s too late now to be discussing all of this and there’s been plenty of debate already. Many believe that our current policies will lead to the destruction of the euro and the EU. Merkel and Serkozy have been ignoring the EU institutions and pushing their own policies for the past few years. I think we have given them enough time, and they’ve failed to resolve the crisis. I think a yes vote to this treaty is anti-EU.

Be careful with the PP bet. It states ‘will the referendum be passed?’
That means your bet could be carried to a 2nd referendum. V sneaky by PP.

Shame on you .
Get out and vote for your say in our future .

Should you change your mind just bring your passport with you to the polling station.

Well given that paddy power are 8/1 I’d say that’s no much value at 2s…. On the bright side betfair odds for the no vote are on the move. No vote shorten ta 5/1 from 9/1.

Still a long shot Maeve…

I’ve already bet my share of the 11 billion on this.

Sorry, I already paid 500 quid to another bunch of gamblers on Monday and I need to keep hold of some cash in case it’s a yes vote and I have to help fork out another 11 billion to Spain.

http://order-order.com/2012/05/28/fine-gael-gets-ceos-to-endorse-treaty-yes-vote/

I applaud you for not following the line of lemmings to the polling stations to vote for something which very few understand, and the ones who do, don’t understand why.

I understand the red thumbs but I just couldn’t decide. Economically I don’t really know which option is better for the country in the medium and long term. Neither side came across with a competent argument for their point of view – and I wasn’t going to vote based on fear. The more I read about it the more I couldn’t make a decision. The variables were endless. I ignored any political aspect in trying to make a decision (well apart from hating FF obviously).

Of all the excuses, anger, or confusion, or disillusionment, or despair, or lack of trust might have gotten you some sympathy, but apathy is a shameful excuse.

Danny Nash. Make it not a waste of time – vote. I’ve hitchhiked in the rain since 0545, got two lifts for first 30 miles, now on bus, will get a 1.5hr lift to ferry home, just in time to cast my vote. It’s the only time WE can say something and have it counted.

Remember that comment when the vote does not go the way u want it to. SHAME on u for ur apathy !!!

Then you have precisely zero right to complain about the result. If you don’t vote, you don’t matter – simple as.

I will v travelling from dundalk to my home in Sligo so I can vote!!!!!

Roddie, your post is a contradiction, if he really wanted it to go a certain way then he’d be voting

If democracy worked, they would outlaw it…Don’t be so naive as to think our vote actually makes a difference. Governments everywhere know that 60-70% of the electorate are sheep who believe the spin, lies and propaganda that they are spoon fed, the rest they brand as crazy or ridicule.

If its a no, they will keep returning to us with referendums until the people are terrified into voting yes. People died for our vote, that is the only reason I always vote, but I also understand Danny Nashs point of view.

@Roddie Cleere

Shame on Irish peoples apathy, we are the laughing stock of the world. You people are silly if you center on one guy here who has decided not to vote. The entire nation are the most ridiculous, apathetic, indifferent cowardly people in the world.

You’re the laughing stock PJ. So very dramatic.

To not vote because they couldn’t be arsed is wrong. If they don’t want to vote, that’s fair enough, but don’t try and use a pathetic excuse to try and justify it.

Jesus PJ relax…thts a bit too far now

@PJ Brennan. I don’t know where this comment “the laughing stock of the world/Europe” came from but I will tell you this. We are very far from being a laughing stock, many of my friends from around the world are actually rooting for us to come out of our situation safe and well. Not a one has come and said that we are a laughing stock. Please don’t speak for other countries and their opinions of us. It’s not nice or respectful to your own country. You should be positive about Ireland and not giving a damn what the so called rest of the world think. Shame on you.

Change your address on the register. Then it will arrive to where you sleep, no driving to collect it. Crazy idea I know.

You have your own polling booth at home? And you still won’t vote?

I am just about to leave the house on my way to vote NO. It will take me just short of 80 minutes to walk it in the rain but it is worth it. I wish my son was with me but he has had to emergrate. I do not like the fact that political millionaires are making laws just to suit their own kind and ruining the fabric of society which is family and community.

apathy…how about all you sheep continuing down the political road when it has failed miserable….how about all you people going to work for a company that does not care one inch about your well being….how about all you people who continue to work doing something u hate….how about all you people who believe in a system that has created 1 to 2 people committing suicide every day in ireland….apathy u say? look in the mirror and wake up to whats going on around u…voting yes or no is both foolish as its quite clear what they did the last time we voted no….OMG we dont like your vote….here lets do that again shall we…fools…wake up and get rid of this terrible system and lets get back to basics…we have intelligent people on this island and they for sure are not running the country!!!!

Sorry sheeple. I am proud to be Irish and I remember all that have sacrificed their lives through generations before me. Little did they know the sheep that would follow. But hey, you can wear your green jersey and plastic hats for the football, true ‘Irish’ pride …

@Margaret We are the laughing stock of Europe. For our apathy, indifference and for being EU poodles. You obviously don’t travel or read foreign press reports. Get real!!!

shame on you

If people are unsure then they really shouldn’t vote.

I’m not voting because I don’t want to! Don’t know who to trust! All the sides are as bad as each other! No real leadership, only a pack of self serving lying b&stards!

shame on you Danny Nash,and what a stupid excuse !!!!!

Danny, that’s disgraceful. Don’t expect any sympathy if you come back to The Journal moaning about the result.

The problem is that you couldn’t be arsed changing the reg. to your new address. Nothing to do with driving an hour to your parents house and petrol.

@ PJ Brennan, Actually I do travel frequently and have spoken to lots of people of different nationalities on this, they have also discussed it with me so I DO know what I am talking about thank you very much. Ireland is a big topic overseas and I see it in the media when I go away also. A lot of the stories concern our future and the mistakes made. No one is laughing at us. You can’t say you love your country and then go and insult it in the highest order, that’s hypocritical.

Thank you Danny, because of your silly comment I went out and voted. I didn’t realise I was being apathetic myself. An extra ‘No’ for the no side!

@ Gay Pea and Dec: if you’re not sure who to vote for, vote No. At least it’ll buy you time to decide before the next go-round. But for God’s sake, go and vote. Myself? A firm no.

@Margaret I am proud of whats left of my country, culture, identity but I don’t consider people like you ‘my country’. Your friends feeling sorry for the Irish and hoping everything will be grand isn’t a reflection for what the international media publish or benchmark of international opinion. Ignorance is bliss as they say, but try travelling a little and take a more active interest in the international media and mindset of other nations. We are considered a joke, a foolish people, apathetic and indifferent, as recently illustrated on the NY Times through a cartoon of us getting shafted over a table by the EU

Margaret, you’re right that people are rooting for us – they think we’re the plucky Irish. However, I’m afraid they will soon abandon us. If you don’t stand up for yourselves, who will stand for you. There are plenty of examples of foreign media stories marveling at the ability of the Irish to “suck it up”.

Yes or No. It doesn’t matter.

Sorry, Stephen, but there will be no stability or investment from this Treaty. The only way the Treaty can work is by the implementation of the ESM. However, in order to fund the ESM Spain, Portugal, Greece, Ireland and Italy amongst other countries which are not able to fund the ESM through their own budgets will have to borrow vast sums of money. This will increase the indebtedness of the EU in general and the Eurozone in particular, further increasing the pressure on the euro. In the short term, and I mean very short term (1 or 2 years), we will have some level of stability. Unfortunately, however, this level of indebtedness is simply unsustainable and will simply lead to even more instability. I understand we can’t go down the route outlined by many in the NO camp, and I would like to think we could fix this problem using a centralised European mechanism. But this Treaty does not do that. I’ll put it to you this way. It has been suggested that Ireland may need another bailout to the tune of 10-12 billion in 2013. However, in order to qualify for that bailout we will need to have put in 11 billion into ESM. This 11 billion will have been borrowed at interests of between 4 and 6%, depending on when we have to pay in. Hypothetically speaking, if Ireland needs an 11 billion bailout in 1 year’s time it will be the equivalent of borrowing 22 billion to fund an 11 billion hole (we will have borrowed 11 billion to borrow a further 11 billion).

I voted No because the debt problem belongs to us, not to my children. Those little people are all getting on great in school thank God, all very bright kids but I’m educating them for export. The future beneficiaries of their intelligence, wit, charm, hard work ethic and good humour will be Australia, the US, Canada and the likes.

Voting Yes is the cowards way out. It’s the selfish choice. It’s the decision that means whole future generations of Irish people who do not flee, will be paying these reparations for their entire lives – because we didn’t have politicians with balls. Balls to get a write down on the bank debt. Balls to scrap croke park and cut public service pay. Balls to reform the welfare system so that a married man with 4 kids would better off packing bags than on the dole.

This debt is OUR generations problem, and we should man up and deal with it head on. Voting Yes will turn it into our generations legacy, and your children will detest you for it. And rightly so.

The result can depend on a single vote, thats the point.

Paul .Please go out and vote .

No, since a referendum has been called, it will be determined by the number of votes counted for either yes or no, just because the Govt. are pushing so hard for a yes doesn’t mean an absent vote means yes. Thankfully.

I always used say if you don’t vote, someone else decides for you. This is strictly true but some confuse this to be that your vote goes to someone else etc. We really need to get serious about voter education.

Yes that is true…! I’v heard that a long time ago also from a reliable source!

I think that teacher is a little biased!! Vote or else the yes side will win

I think your sons teacher had a wet dream

If you don’t vote yopu give up your right to have a say on how things turn out . Go out and vote , you one vote could , could make a difference.

Deirdre Bennett, just proves teachers and parents don’t know everything