The Banks pay it.

And the circle of lunacy will be complete- when the banks are funding their own bailout.

They should include bin collections in with this tax, dumping will soon stop. And you will have a cleaner country.

@Mark. I don’t agree that you should include refuse collection with the property tax. The polluter pays principal is working well in Ireland generally and many people have made great efforts (largely due to financial incentive) to reduce, reuse and recycle etc. Unfortunately there will always be that small element who will pollute. Also the private sector seems to have risen to the challenge (in Dublin anyway) and are providing collection services at reasonable rates.

Dublin privatised collection has reasonablr rates my arse, after six budgets

There’s a company advertising a rate of €99 for the year at the moment, seems reasonable to me. People in the country are paying this amount every quarter.

@ aldo . Do you mean that you think the banks should pay – or that you know the law provides that they will pay

99 euros, if your in the area they collect in and a limited number of these places on offer. There’s some small print comes up on the screen. I’m 2-3 miles outside of Dublin city and can’t avail of it .. Ridiculous!

@ Brian – I know for a fact that the banks pay the HH charge in cases of repossession or voluntary surrender of a property.

That’s bullshit!!!..IF THEY & IT’S A BIG IF MANAGE to get people to concur!…then water & I mean perfect drinking water & REFUSE SHLD B INCLUDED!

Wait till those Gombeens value it

who says they will take your value as the one they want don’t be fooled this blood thirst vampires will make sure everyone pays higher than normal!

And remember…this is just the start of it. Give it 5 years and those numbers will have increased by 50%..

The Government just recently set up a database of house sale price for the past 2 years, wouldn’t be hard to work out which bracket your house is in. I’d also be pretty sure that if you thought they overvalued your house you could raise a complaint about it and get it assessed more accurately.

Which is exactly what they want. By getting in touch with them you are giving your acceptance. ?!!!? Can someone clarify. The silence is eerily creepy and stinks of something fishy

Of course it’s hard to tell based on past sales. Looking at that property database from last year the last 4bed houses that sold in my estate were 135k and 115k, yet there is one two doors down from me on the market for 60k for nearly a year and the extended 5 bed next door has been for sale at 75k for the same length of time. Ridiculous system for a ridiculous tax from a ridiculous government.

I have a solution to this, the government through tax increases etc have already made it impossible for me to feed my children and pay my mortgage, so I will have to default on my mortgage. And when my bill comes in for revenue for the house tax I will default For the amount due to revenue, why should my children starve to pay back for an economy that’s not mine anymore. I will feed my children first and let the bank suffer, they are the ones who caused all this in the first place. Repossess my house, its worth nothing anyway, and ill live local authority pr in a mobile because there is no incentive to own anything anymore in this country.

@ Simon, that only works if there were any sales in your estate in the last 2 years. I my estate all that was sold was 2 apartments, how does that help to value a house in that estate.

They are going to estimate on the high side and if you want to contest it you have to pay an estate agent to do up a valuation costing you more money. It’s a lose-lose scenario for home owners.

Complete and utter BS. A house in Ireland is now only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. Reality. An attack in those who didn’t cost the state a cent to house, while those provided with houses free gratis (and paid for by the rest) go untouched. Some animals more equal than others etc.

So what happens if I value mine at €190k & next door values at €210k ?

Who’s right?

(Next door has a large extension at the back, not visible from the road).

Fair Play To You De Badger.

Look after your children first mate,
because this stoogeen government care nothing for them.

Simon that might work in an area where there have been sales in the last 2 years. I live in an estate with 58 houses, we moved in in 1993 and we are nearly the newest people In the estate, in the 19 years we are here only 4 houses have been sold the last about 6 years ago. There is currently 1 house in the estate for sale and it has been since the summer of 2011. The asking price has dropped from €130k to €95k and this is for what I would consider to be one of the best houses in the estate. So how do you work out the value of houses in that situation?

Yes Darragh it seems the will be writing out, but get this the will give you a valuation and if you dont agree, you at your own expense have to submit a certified valuation from a suitable person such as an estate agent or valuer. Which in effect the mean for all houses to be independently valued as im sure the will/ may be on the up side while reality is on the down side. Of course you could all do what happened with the council writing out over the house hold charge ignore it.The revenue have no more a clue who owns a home than the Management agency for the house hold tax did,apart from the people who volunteered the information. Now that the house hold tax is no more I wonder what happened to all the staff at the management agency set up to collect it????? Im guessing noting probaly kept on to tie up loose ends and some time in the next 20years some will cop on that the are still there tying up the loose ends. My advice to one and all, wake up and stand up for your self ,your family ,your kids and their future and the future of the country as a whole.Stop taking any thing the throw your way and when the declare its in the national interest you all line up like sheep unquestioning. As Christy Moore says “Stop being a nation of shite takers”

Well, I’ll be interested in what they do in my area. The ‘official’ site says there were two sales in the reported period, 2010and 2011. One was an ‘in the family’ transaction after a will, for 55k the other a recently built 4 bed house with a sea view for 440k. My house is 70sq m two beds, septic tank, so what do you think they’ll do??

It would be nice to think so. But there were so many people who thought they could create wealth (and taxes) by buying and selling property to ourselves at inflated prices with money borrowed from abroad that I have my doubts!

Spot on Reg but wont be a popular sentiment…suggesting that we, the people, are in any way responsible due to our own greed with property during the boom.
Banks were complicit though which is why I believe the hurt should be felt by both entities.

On this tax, it seems fair and we can all be thankful that the prices of our properties tanked as they have done!

problem is its hard for the people to admit they got it wrong when the slime bag bankers and the failed regulators and politicians refuse to take responsibility you can say the people did this and that but until those at the top hold there hands up why should the people who are suffering the most admit anything

There was tax on property ten years. Stamp duty.
The state helped itself to on average 100,000 on every new property sold during the boom.
Most boom era property buyers are still paying this windfall tax through their mortgage repayments and now are being subjected to unjust double taxation.

Rents will rise the market is empty of good quality houses, do you think the landlord with all the tax etc they pay is going to suck up another €400 my shite, rents will rise because if this. Less money in the economy again clever stuff

penalties of €100 per day !!!
The government eventually conceded defeat !!!

Where are you getting this stuff from.. LOL
.
You do realise that we’ve practically paid off all the bondholders. saved and bailed out the bank. given all our money away and now were looking to bridge the hole in what the country take in tax compares to what it spends.

As its going to be deducted at source, you’ll have to boycott your employer or social welfare office. Best of luck with that…

Simon,
Read the legislation if you doubt me. The courts had the authority to impose a fine of €100 per day on someone who refused to register for the Household charge having been ordered to do so by the court.
Not one single person has been convicted in the courts over non payment despite huge non compliance. The government have now accepted defeat of their policy to have the Local Authorities collect the charge and so have passed it on to the Revenue.
We have not practically paid off all the bondholders. Having had €20 billion stolen from us in 2012 to pay off the bondholders, we will hand over another €17 billion in 2013 to cover private banking debt.

Reilly,

Every deduction made from source will be another voter lost forever to FG and Labour. The political pressure on their TDs will be enormous as more and more of their constituency have their wages and bank accounts raided to pay for the gambling losses of financial speculators. A mass boycott has the potential to bring down this government and which ever party undertakes to abolish the tax will do very well in the subsequent election.
There’s also the danger of people withdrawing their money from the Irish banks to prevent the Revenue from seizing the tax there. This has the potential to precipitate a run on the banks as the protest gathers momentum.
On top of this political dynamite, there is the practical difficulty in implementing the tax in the face of mass non compliance. The Revenue have never faced a mass boycott before. This is a whole different ball game to chasing down a few scared tax evaders. The administrative task in identifying hundreds of thousands of people and trying to put attachments on their incomes will be massive and may well be beyond them given the huge holes in the public sector information systems. This assumes of course that the 6000 Revenue staff agree to implement the tax. It’s quite possible that the Unite and CPSU trade unions will make their stand on this issue. CPSU members in particular are not very well paid (under 30k p.a. I think) and this Property tax will hit them very hard.
The government have given the Revenue draconian powers in an attempt to cow people into submission and quell the protest before it gets off the ground. It’s unlikely now that this strategy will succeed as the anti Household tax has shown people the power that they yield when they act in unison.
All the above only addresses the won’t pay contingent. Many thousands of people who can’t pay will join the protest through necessity as they are forced to make the choice between keeping the power on ,food on the table or paying this unjust tax.
2013 looks like it might be a very interesting year for the Coalition.

Coddler,
Seriously, but what planet are you on? Revenue cannot access your bank accounts!! And you say there’ll be a run on the banks to prevent a 300 euro deduction!! And then you expect 6,000 revenue staff to put their jobs at risk to save you a few bob. Why on earth would any union support such a ludicrous call? What’s in it for them? And I don’t care which TD is left standing at the end so long as they continue to make the tough choices the majority of us voted them in to do…

Coddler – the protest you speak of needs to happen and fast – would be great to pick a day of a big EU meeting and block the streets …. If everybody sticks together this will fail , and that is a certainty … However it is a big ‘if’ because the Irish seem to have lost their fight and have turned into a group of YES men/women. A real shame

I find its people with nothing to loose are the most outlandish in their calls. There’s 86% of the eligible population still working. Do people want to put that at risk to get even? If ever you need an example of what such action can do look at Belfast. The economy is gone tits up again and business is going to the wall. Those spanners calling for civil unrest need to wake up…because as long as were still working, you’re getting paid. Muppets…

O’ Reilly,

The Revenue does have the power to deduct the Property tax from your bank account.
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/state-can-now-take-property-tax-from-your-personal-bank-account-3333199.html

They can also enter your property forcibly for the purposes of a valuation.
As I said, the new powers granted to the Revenue are draconian but will not be politically acceptable if they actually try to use them against significant numbers of people.
You may not care which TDs are left standing but they certainly do and that is why a mass boycott will exert huge political pressure on them.

Sorry O Reilly, but Revenue can access your accounts and put attachments on your account to take any amount they are owed!!

Codler, aren’t they trespassing if they enter your property without your consent/invitation???

Laura,

It looks like a bit of a grey area according to the article I linked there. The Revenue have been given the powers to enter your home without your permission but this could be subject to a constitutional challenge. I certainly hope someone with the resources or the legal expertise takes a challenge as this has a real whiff of the jackboot from it.

Exactly what I was thinking Sean

Great in put, I agree. I like a man who sticks to his convictions !!

Sorry I can’t seem to find the
0 to minus €1,000,000 Valuation Band, for the half a million of us in Negative Equity.

If your house is worth 0 then I’ll quite happily take it off ya, I’ll even pay over the asking price if you want.. how does 50 euro sound??

How compassionate of you Simon.

Now you’re showing your true colors.

about as compassionate as someone who things that negative equity means their house is worth a minus value. cop on will ya. negative equity is a personal financial status. your only fooling himself with that one.

Well over half of the mortgage holders in the the country are in severe negative equity.

This is mainly due to a government run property ponzi scheme, that most TD’s (from all parties) did not object to.

A valuation system that includes generous taxpayer bailouts and handouts, seems to suite our corrupt/criminal banks, government and senior civil service Simon.

Whatever happened to,”Whats sauce for the Goose is Sauce for the Gander” and such like?

Simon, surely a wealth tax should reflect the amount an individual owes on the asset being taxed?

Owing a large amount of money to the bank on an asset does not reflect wealth – the wealth is the difference between the value of the asset and the amount owed on it. Unfortunately for alot of people at the moment, that number is a negative figure.

Hey Simon I had a bit of a think about it and,
I want to take you up on that €50 offer, (as long as it’s cash).
Meet me at the gates of Priory Hall in the morning around 9 and I’ll give you the keys.

Hey Simon.
I was waiting for you this morning.
Where were you?

Simon, you need to do the maths. You would need to clear the negative equity and take over the mortgage before the seller could walk away from the house with €50

U see u all give up so easily!

“For example. If the system be established on basis of Income, and his just proportion on that scale has been already drawn from every one, to step into the field of Consumption, and tax special articles in that, as broadcloth or homespun, wine or whiskey, a coach or a wagon, is doubly taxing the same article. For that portion of Income with which these articles are purchased, having already paid its tax as Income, to pay another tax on the thing it purchased, is paying twice for the same thing; it is an aggrievance on the citizens who use these articles in exoneration of those who do not, contrary to the most sacred of the duties of a government, to do equal and impartial justice to all its citizens.
– Thomas Jefferson

sorry to hear that mary best remedy is go join a group fighting these cuts, austerity measures etc, whether it be the anti house hold charge campagin or what ever is close and you will be surrounded by like minded people and you will feel better being in a position to fight back. hope things are better soon always an upside!!

We could introduce a levy on “fairy dust” as well

Billions…for bondholders! Punch in the face or what!

At the end of the day, we are animals with brains that trick us into thinking we arent (blades of grass quote!). Trap an animal and push it to it breaking point and it will snap. Blood-shed , violence, pain and suffering is what will ensue. Its the only way we humans get things done. This shite of being nice ankle grabbers will end.

Yes….. So that’s a big problem for self employed…. Especially if u government work…. Which I do occasionally… However I will not be paying this tax…. EVER…. And when I say it I mean it…. Lets march…. Peacefully and lawfully….

Would you like to swap your house for a cardboard box? Actually I’m feeling generous … two cardboard boxes?

Are we living in a Dictatorship — NO
.
It’s a tax on your income – ALL TAX IS A TAX ON YOUR INCOME.

Hang on, where I live there are ‘houses’ with no mains water supply and a septic tank. One I know well is two up two down. IMO, 50K is about its worth.

It would make it a maximum of 1.15 * 0.18 the value of your house

Niamh.. you got it worng

You can be deciphering and wondering and debating and procrastanating all ye like ..at the end of the day were all been robbed the sooner you we everybody even the people advocating this Tax realize we are been robbed yet again by a puppet government that has no interest in you only that you should pay for everything that their Friends in higher places decide you should pay for.Even the people who can pay and want to for some strange reason are still been robbed so it would make one wonder where does it end and i would say its only starting so prepare yourself for serious hand in pocket manouvers by a Government elected to help people but choose to drive them so far into the ground peopl we will be burried keep debating and scratching your head .

Thank Simon!

I pay €2250 in management fees a year and now this so I’m paying enough. In the uk you get a lot of services for your property tax which we don’t get. When property tax was abolished here income tax and other taxes were increased to compensate so we are now paying double for nothing!!

In the UK you get water & Refuse collection along with numerous other services..
Here we’re paying for all those services as well as property tax..
Road tax in the UK is £165 , where as the average road tax is twice that here. (Including the exchange rate)
Income tax is also higher.
Where is the value for money for this property tax??

When we bought our house six years ago we payed the property tax, only then it was called stamp duty….

@David What have property management fees got to do with a local property tax? Homeowners also have to pay their own maintenance costs, rubbish collection, insurance, gardening services etc etc.

@ Ronan Yes high stamp duty rates was a mad form of property tax for many reasons. At least you should be clawing some of it back through the extra mortgage interest relief introduced last year, if you have a mortgage.

@Colm my council tax bill every year is £2,575 /€3180 and water rates is £700/ €870, my car tax is £270/ €340. I have been paying these rates for many many years.

At least in the U.K. you have a mature property market with regulations, enforced regulations!

Unlike the Crapshoot in Ireland.

@reg because the council doesn’t provide any amenities for the area. The roads aren’t even maintained by them. The only thing I get is water which they are bringing in charges for separately. My estate is a massive unfinished development but because there is one builder with a drill on site we have to pay. There are no libraries or parks, all green spaces upkeep is paid by management fees and all road lighting and maintenance is paid by management fees so why should I pay for a property tax!!!!

David,

Do you ever leave your estate and go elsewhere in your county?

@Damocles So I should be happy to pay a property tax for other people to have these services but not me? I just pay double and be happy about it? If there is a tax linked to my property I would like to think I was paying for services where my property is located not elsewhere in the county.

If you go elsewhere, out on public streets, then you are using those services.

It’s like saying, “I don’t have kids so why should I pay the portion of taxes that go to schools or child benefit?” or “I’m not at war with anyone, why am I paying towards the military?”

I understand your argument but the other taxes I pay go towards the council also especially car tax which is a general pooled tax which goes towards all council departments not just roads. So my argument is if they want me to pay a property tax for local services provided for my area my argument is those services aren’t provided in my area where my property is located.

If I go outside my door the streets are paved, lit, cleaned etc by our management fees. If I go to a more established area of town, where richer people live, their streets are cleaned, lit etc by the council. So I should contribute towards the upkeep of parks, greens, flowers in the roundabouts where rich people live, but when it comes to taking care of my own area, the rest of the county or city don’t contribute a cent? I’ll pay when all residential streets and estates are privatised or covered by the council tax. I’ve had enough. The squeezed middle can’t take any more.

I can’t believe that there are still people who allowed the government to get away with thinking “ah sure, the protest will die down after a while and people will just accept it”.

It’s still Winter.