probably not… would set precedence

Would you rather that the government keeps bailing aer lingus out every time it goes into trouble? whereas ryanair is run very well… ryanair will stay the same aer lingus as well but better run…

It’s business….. If ryanair have the money and they meet any conditions set down by the EU or the irish government then IMO any company can buy another. I would rather see an irish company buying an irish company.

Why are irish people only happy when it’s an American or british company acquiring an irish company… A nation of haters who hate to see irish companies doing well.

I agree with Paul.
Aer Lingus have a good bit more ‘quality’ when it comes to their flights whereas Ryanair have alot more quantity.

Ryanair = Treated like sardines.
Aer Lingus = Treated like a customer.

It all does boil down to how you want to be treated but to be fair, Aer Lingus isn’t much more expensive than Ryanair on most occasions.

when did the gov last bail out aer lingus.

@Edenfire-paul

Agree with you. Competition is good. Aer Lingus is way above in customer services, flight destinations and usually doesn’t cancel because there’s supposedly a mouse in the wiring!!!

Aer Lingus gets me from A – B as quickly as possible with little or no hassle. If I wanted to go ar@e about face to get to my destination I’d fly Ryan Air. That is why I don’t fly with them. If Ryan Air get majority shares in Aer Lingus our tourism is drop hugely. He’ll be charging one for using the steps up to the plane door next!

Simon O – its not a question of the last bailout its a question of the next bailout, AL is going to have to start a major fleet replacement in the next couple of years especial its trans Atlantic fleet (should have been replaced years ago), its current aircraft are close to 20 years old & AL does generate enough cash to buy all the new new aircraft it has on order. In the mean time more competition is coming from the likes of Ryanair BA etc with fleet of new aircraft that burn less fuel does driving down seat prices and upping there margin, all of which makes AL running just to keep still. Also the next generation of 737 & 320 maybe able to cross the Atlantic making the possibly of a new market opening up from Ireland to the US East coast. Simple fact is that AL needs to do a deal & I rather have it run from Dublin by Ireland most successful company in history than a palace in Dubai as a toy.

Besides the government could do with the cash from sale of AL – so they can squander it elsewhere… It is very clear from the way state governed bodies are run. They are run like businesses at all. Which is half the reason where we are right now. One less business under the governments control gets a thumbs up from me.

Jeff I suggest you stop getting your facts wrong!nnAer Lingus operates one of the youngest fleets in the industry! Almost all of its longhaul aircraft are less then 5 years old and it’s European aircraft were all bought since 2003 with the exception of maybe 5 of the slightly older aircraft. Not to mention the new airbus A350 due to be delivered from 2015 onwards which have already been financed!nnIf you don’t believe me well too bad cos it’s easy to find on aerlingus.com

@More Creative

Ryanair wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for state intervention to keep AL from crushing them in the early days.
But yes, the more things privatised the better. Afterall, Eircom was turned into a wonderfully efficient and productive enterprise after privatisation. Apart from the little matter of the €4 billion in debt run up by the various vulture capitalists that owned it, forcing it into examinership of course.

Ryanair and Aer Lingus’s competition for each others customers keeps prices competitive.
Most people seem to agree that Aer Lingus provides a significantly better service with flexibility on baggage charges, far more primary airport slots and is closely competitive on price and on certain routes often cheaper than Ryanair. Who in their right mind what want to see all of this come to an end for a Ryanair monopoly,
How horrible would it be to have to put up with Ryanair’s reprehensible and smug disregard for your business without any choice in the matter. The fact that Ryanair would be the only Irish airline to and from Ireland servicing most of the routes as a monopoly would hardly be good for the image of the country abroad either, let alone the even more direct association foreigners would have with Ireland itself and Ryanairs cheap publicity stunts.

Aer Lingus is a stand alone profitable company it has a pensions issue but unlike Ryanair has greater growth potential, Ryanair has stepped on a lot of toes and is not able to drive the same bargains it once did with regional airports, still an incredibly successful business but with a lot more limited growth, Michael O’Leary has said himself that they will need to let prices rise to deliver the same revenue growth the stock market expect and they have done so for the last two years, regardless of the credibility of his assertions on not doing raising prices in the event of a Ryanair monopoly across many many routes for air transport to and from Ireland, if a competitor is not biting at your heels for your customers performance is simply not the same on price.

Regardless of what is good for Aer Lingus or Ryanairs respective shareholders , it is better for the Irish Citizen to have competitive prices and choice of service standards and hopefully the Govt will appreciate that fact, rather than selling Ryanair a monopoly on flights on and off the Island for significantly less than the money given to pay for the failed bets or reckless financial speculators every other month.

Ryanair itself was built on competition, Michael O’Leary has made a ton of money on delivering much needed choice to airline passengers and deserves every penny, he is better in a competitive environment, a Ryanair monopoly is in no ones interest except arguable the short term investor in either airline.

Tony – AL has 43 planes but a big differences between owning a plane (25) & Leasing a plane (18) in an airline. Yes on Average AL has a Young fleet if you think 5years is new in plane terms. It tends to happen when you lease a new plane you reduce the average age of your fleet. If you include planes it has leased in the last few years. As for financing the replacement of the fleet unless you know something AL hasn’t told its shareholders i think your wrong about having funding in place to fund the purchase of a new fleet of A350 a order is not a delivery and certain not a funded purchase. Note 46% of short haul fleet is older than 6 years even with leasing & 71% of long haul fleet is older than 6 years even with leasing of “new” planes.

See shareholders presentation or just check out the share price since IPO AL is heading into a mountain. But Ryanair can save it.

http://corporate.aerlingus.com/media/aerlinguscom/content/pdfs/corporate/Investorday_2011_FINAL.pdf

Flying long haul in a Ryan Air standard doesn’t sound too appealing but it may be the only option for aer lingus, we shouldn’t really have govt. involvement in the airline. Maybe they wouldn’t lower the standard that much?

Exactly right you are!

I totally agree with Paul. I have sworn I will never fly with Ryanair again. Smokeless cigarettes, call cards. scratch cards, stupid jingles when the plane lands on time (after they add on about 15 minutes to the journey time to make sure they land on time), not to mention trying to get your carry-on luggage past the gestapo. It’s a nightmare. Give me the civilised Aer Lingus experience every time! If Ryanair are allowed to take over Aer Lingus the only way things can go is down.

Of course we need to retain the slots in Heathrow. Abu Dhabi and Dubai are great for Australasia and possibly Africa, but what about long-haul to the Americas? Makes no sense going via the middle east hubs.

I get a feeling that a lot of the anti-Ryanair comments been made here are from non frequent-flyers I fly on average once per week to Europe and beyond. I find almost no difference between Aer Lingus and Ryanair and short haul, I think someone mentioned Aer Lingus provide a free newspaper. I have always found Ryanair very effiicient and punctual and they provide more variety on their in-flight menu than Aer Lingus . If I need to fly to Heathrow I’ll more often use BMI as they have more code-share options, even since the IAG buyout. Irish people should be proud of Ryanair, they are one of the largest airlines in the world and all their aircraft bear the Irish flag, I would be happy to see Ryanair buy out Aer Lingus because it might even lower the cost of transatlantic travel and open up more routes to the U.S., would be nice to have direct flights returned to west coast of U.S.A. (LA, San Diego, maybe Las Vegas) was disgraceful that Aer Lingus couldn’t continue their Los Angeles service after so many years (another sign of their lack of ability to compete!)

Sorry, what’s with the ‘National Carrier’, stuff. That phrase is dated.nWho is the National Carrier of the US, Belgium, Switzerland, etc. etc. nWe don’t need a national carrier anymore than we need a national rail network. We need services.

Absolutely right, we need to start privatizing our transport network. This government bought trains capable of 200 miles an hour but forgot that they were putting them on 80 mile an hour tracks. It takes 6 hours to get to Galway from Cork by train and 3 hours to get from Berlin to Paris. What a joke!

Sean national airline of Switzerland is Swiss. Belgium’s Sabena went bust, but has been replaced by the decent Brussels Airlines.

@ Tom Collins. Because Rail privatisation in the UK worked a treat, didn’t it…?

Privatisation and Nationalisation are not quick-fix one size fits all affairs. Each sector will have its own peculiarities that will make one approach better than the other. Eg Eircom’s privatisation was a disaster, with asset-stripping being the only goal of the interested parties – how anyone can say privatisation of that served Ireland well is beyond me. Conversely, Aer Lingus being sold to Ryan Air would be a complete disaster for obvious monopoly reasons, but Aer Lingus sold to KLM/Air France or Etihad or Another, could well work – frees the State from exposure to the ups and downs of the Airline industry, while ensuring that the lion share of air travel to and form the country is not controlled by one party.

A little less dogma and a little more reason would do us the world of good.

200 Mph Trains Tom? Was that a dream you had? Some of the fastest trains in Europe don’t even run at 200Mph. And are you seriously contrasting RyanAir & Aer Lingus short haul with McDonald’s to an up market restaurant? Aer Lingus short-haul service is also ‘no-frills’ and is almost identical to RyanAir’s service (Bag Restrictions, pay for checked luggage, pay for drinks/snacks, pay for seat-selections)
How often do you fly with either carriers out of curiosity Tom?
The leg room and seat size are almost identical on the two carriers (comparing Aer Lingus’s A320-200 and RyaAir’s 737-800

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Aer_Lingus/Aer_Lingus_Airbus_A320.php

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Ryanair/Ryanair_Boeing_737-800.php

I think a lot of people making anti-RyanAir comments here are not frequent flyers and are just echoing media’s anti-RyanAir mantra. I fly with both these carriers a lot and find very little difference between both of them on their European services; in fact I find RyanAir more efficient and have always found their staff courteous and helpful!

Andrew Eager. Yes indeed, I’m sorry I did not elaborate enough that’s my fault entirely. It is very true what you say there. Privatization alone will not work but privatization in any amount in this country is surely needed.

Ryanair staff are over worked and underpaid. Aerlingus staff are overpaid and under worked. Of course they are nicer to you!

They are overpaid are they Steph? How do you know? How much do they earn? What do you do and how much do you earn?

What relevance is Stephs job & wage to the conversation – it’s obvious you just want the answer so that you can rubbish her statement by attacking her rather than a reasonable discussion.

If you feel she’s wrong then why not say how rather than looking for an opportunity to belittle?

Aer Lingus Wage =
Comparable Ryainair Wage =

So as of 31 December 2011 Aer Lingus has €894M in cash so an offer of €694 is outrageous – Ryanair will actually be making a profit of €200M on the purchase. On the other hand the knowledge that the Ryanair share holding in Aer Lingus is under investigation in the UK, Michael O’Leary might have made a shrewd move by putting in an offer in the hope that the Aer Lingus stock price will spike and he will be able to cash in on his €400M share holding in Aer Lingus – if that is true, while shrewd it is a cynical move on Mr. O’Learys part.

I don’t think they’ve taken the good out of it, I think they have made air travel affordable for all, don’t forget before they brought the low cost model to Europe it was at its lowest ?400 to fly from Dublin to London, now you’ll get their for ?50 and Ryanair has forced aerlingus to become competitive. Aerlingus was supported for years by the state, and still would be had Ryanair not put them under such pressure .

Ryanair is one of irelands great business success stories and I hope they do go from strength to strength….

that said I just don’t think it would be prudent for Ryanair to have a monopoly on this island, we need another big player for there to be competition. Ryanair wouldn’t allow aerlingus to compete with them on routes, removing that option that people want and the encouragement for them to keep prices down..

@bilbo how has it made travel affordable for all when nine times out of ten it’s more expensive than some of its rivals?

9 times out of 10, seriously? Id like to see some facts to back that up Eoin?

Given the generally accepted low level of service provided by Ryanair, The only reason to travel with them must
be price. If they were more expensive than their competitors 90% of the time how are they Europes second largest airline by passenger numbers and why did 76 million people travel with them last year.

Its annoying no doubt to see all those extra charges when you go through ryanairs booking process,
but when push comes to shove their cheaper than the rest. If they were not, i wouldn’t be travelling with them, i can’t see how anyone would tbh….

I think the plan was that it wouldn’t be made to subscribe to a similar ethos. Michael O’Leary said he wouldn’t be using the low cost model on Air Lingus, but running it as a seperate compnay.

I think he should have a go. He’s been pretty successful to date. He has the money to buy it. There are other airlines, so it’s not a monopoly.

A little bit of conflict in there really isn’t there?
You’re choosing Ryaniar because it’s cheap? I think that’s fair enough but come on – in the mean time you apparently are insulted, irritated”and treated with “gratuitously insolence”.
By choosing Ryanair apparently solely on price you have little grounds to complain. If you have a choice and you choose cheaper and nastier then the nastiness is pretty much endorsed by you.

By choosing cheaper and nastier you’ve saved more than the value of the difference by accepting such treatment.

If , in wishing to purchase a service for a reasonable price , I choose to demur at the insolent and devious methods of the would be supplier , I feel that that is within my rights . Furthermore , the putative vendor should not be astonished when I make comment on the matter , and express the hope the such an attitude may not become the common currency of Irish aviation in general .

Oh, you are completely entitled to your opinion, I wouldn’t deny that – that doesn’t mean that your opinion doesn’t represent a double standard.

Pay less, get less – Pay more, get more. Your decision as you have presented it is to have placed a monetary value on the difference between the services and decided that the extra service is not worth paying for.
If anyone has taken away your right to bemoan Ryanair – it’s yourself by choosing them. In choosing what you have presented as a terrible service you encourage that service.

I cannot agree that in purchasing , I should implicitly consent to being treated as some form of ” unter mensch” . You may note that other budget airlines do not oblige their customers to jump through the preposterous hoops created by Ryanair . It therefore follows that I am not unreasonable in expressing reservations at a potential takeover of Aer Lingus in case their customer service might be similarly infected . If I chose to buy groceries from a cut-price supermarket I would protest if I were liable to extra charges at the checkout . The world you would live in , Tomy Ioma , appears to be a plutocratic paradise ….Pay the money ; live well / If you cannot ; go to hell !

As before – you don’t have to agree for it to remain the truth.

The way that people are treated by Ryanair IMO has been grossly overstated. They have a very good record for being on time, the service is basic but really, who cares? Why do we expect people to run up and down the aisles at our service? Does that happen on buses? It’s just another mode of transport – why expect a newspaper, a glass of champagne and a compliment?! For anyone expecting more – pay for it, for anyone receiving treatment which they feel demeans them, go somewhere else or accept what you chose.

By going the cheaper route you have chosen the lesser service. You’ve moaned about hidden charges yet you still chose Ryanair? I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn’t look at the number at the bottom of the page before submitting payment at the last moment – you ALWAYS get to see the total at that point.

Finally – you’ve interpreted my words in a certain way – hard luck but you’ve missed the point. I’m saying it’s the choice of the customer but the customer should understand what the choice means.

The fact that Ryanair sets out to intentionally deceive customers when booking a flight is a clear example of the complete lack of respect they have for their customers. If your thick enough (or computer illiterate enough) to fall for their online booking add on traps, they feel they have a right to benefit. Can anyone suggest this willingness for deceit on their behalf is limited to the online booking system, this willingness to deceive is also evident in the arguments they make for why they should have a monopoly of air travel to Irish Citizens. Anyone not directly enriched by Ryanair who could support this is hard to understand. They have zero respect for you, will con you willingly, publicly humiliate their staff and their customers but deliver amazing prices, you have a choice whether you want to spend money with them, they buy aer lingus you have no choice on the vast majority of routes, who or why would any Irish citizen want that.

@Economicopoly – so what you’re saying is that they let you see all the charges?

In the event of prices going up in a monopoly situation another carrier would move in. The idea that Ryanair buying out Aer Lingus and everyone having a gun to their heads to pay massive money for flights and this remaining a static situation is absolute tripe.

It’s exactly how we currently HAVE choice at the moment. It used to be Aer Lingus only and regulation restricted competition in the form of Ryanair. If there is a market another carrier will step in.

I really don’t get the bashing of Ryanair – if the customer service on Aer Lingus was worth the extra then Ryanair would simply fail. It’s not, because it’s providing supply to our demand. The market finds its own space.

@ Toni Iona ( Sorry for previous typo ) I do not for one minute deny that Ryanair provide an efficient , clean , modern , punctual service at what is often a reasonable cost . My objections are based solely on the incontrovertible fact that their booking process and its concommitant charges is tediously opaque and could easily be clarified . I do not take an interest in the various forums that criticise the airline , they are as tedious as the outpourings of the airline’s various spokespeople . My original point that Ryanair is a blunt instrument to be asked to reform and run Aer Lingus stands . Regards to you.

Tomy
“In the event of prices going up in a monopoly situation another carrier would move in. The idea that Ryanair buying out Aer Lingus and everyone having a gun to their heads to pay massive money for flights and this remaining a static situation is absolute tripe”.
Ryanair existed from taking on the Aer Lingus Monopoly, vast majority agree this was a positive, if Ryanair are now allowed to have a monopoly you will have less choice and higher prices. If you believe what Ryanair promises in terms of not taking advantage of the huge opportunities for revenue increases that come from having a monopoly position thats your perogative however your argument that a foreign competitor or new Irish start up will come to the rescue of the Irish consumer in the event that Ryanair jacks up prices fails to account for the fact that Ryanair have the revenue from their size to squeeze out any competitor until they run out of cash and leave them to a monopoly rather than call it tripe I advise you to look at Ryanair and Aer Arann on certain routes and Ryanair and Easy Jet on certain routes. Furthermore Ryanair would have slots that other competitors cannot acquire and Aer Lingus have, it is these slots, superior service and competitive prices that has Aer Lingus as a stand alone company. Furthermore the EU report on the proposed merger has a swath of further factual data which would be worth reading before you dismiss the idea of a Ryanair monopoly being bad for Irish consumers as tripe.

Tomy
Furthermore when a monopoly is in place for many reasons ( revenues to drop prices to bleed out new entrants until they retreat, use of other advantages that dominant position bestows..) it is alot more difficult for new entrants to a market to enter. Ryanair itself required the Irish State to intervene and break up Aer Lingus’s monopoly position it could not do it on price but ironically needed state intervention, they are now seeking to restore a monopoly on flights in and out of Ireland. More than ever with emigration and the need to do business overseas Irelands needs the most choice and the most competitive prices, a Ryanair monopoly is an affront to this requirment. Ryanair should not get to take over Aer Lingus just as much as Aer Lingus should not get to take over Ryanair, I assume even you cannot dispute the fact that their competition has benefited Irish consumers, a return to monopoly will not.

It’s hardly a monopoly any more. There are loads of airlines that fly in here. Air space is open.

It is a monopoly. The vas majority of airlines that fly out of Dublin are AL and Ryanair. BA and Iberia both pulled out of the route because they could not compete with the race to the bottom. Indeed Iberia have reintroduced their service under the Iberia Express – basically a flight with nothing else. Even BMI reduced their service on the Dub – LHR route, unlike the rest of their routes which were full service. We’ll be left with lots of airlines offering little but flights, which would be a shame.

BMI had 8 flight a day to Heathrow from Dublin, they reduced this to 6 in the winter months and increase it again in the summer. The flights are full most of the time. DUB-LHR is BMI busiest route.

@ Mark: I meant reduced their in-flight service.

An airline that is probably costing the country a fortune. Get rid of it. Let Ryanair sort it out. Why should us taxpayers pay for the inefficiency of others when we are ourselves being squeezed in our own jobs.

I wouldn’t call aerlingus a “great” airline, but to be fair their not losing money and the government hasn’t supported them in years.

They actually have a large cash surplus sitting in the bank…

Their certainly holding their own atm.

I think they would improve it immensely.

Why?

Well said Peter. Michael O’ Leary is probably the best businessman this country has produced. Am I the only person in Ireland who has flown with Ryanair dozens of times and never encountered rude staff , delays etc. I have always been 100% satisfied with them and think they are fantastic value. 13 euro to fly to Poland, Check. rep. etc.. I am always getting bargain flights. Maybe Im just unusually lucky. Fair play to Mick. Keep up the good work.

Phil,

You’ve never had a delay with Ryanair? Really? You may be eligible for some sort of award, you should probably play the lottery.

Id have to back phil up there, Ive never had a ryanair flight delayed (that i was on)
Ive had several delays on Aerlingus in the last year. Two cancellations with whizz air (desaster of an airline)

I can say i slightly prefer Aerlingus to fly with but not enough to pay more so if their within a Few euro and are going to a better airport il fly with them. But even with that preferance i more often than not end up on a ryanair flight.

Very true – all of what you said is right but I still dont like the thought of Ryanair owning Aer Lingus – maybe I am stubborn. I recall an incident at Luton where we had been waiting for the incoming Ryanair flight to land and it was 45 minutes late. Then when it came to boarding the plane, the Ryanair staff actually shouted at passengers to hurry up and they were not subtle or polite about it. When we mentioned that they were the ones who were running behind schedule, we were told that we didnt have to fly with them!!

Dont get me wrong economics rule and I fly the cheapest airline and Ryanair is one of them but I have to admit that inside the plane Easyjet was better at dealing with people that Ryanair is so all aint well in the low cost world of Ryanair.

Aer Lingus isnt perfect either but they fly to the country that you want to go to and dont fly you into Sweden and then put you an bus to Denmark which is what Ryanair do (certainly used to) on their flights to Denmark.

Aer Lingus is not owned by Aer Lingus or it’s staff, it is owned by the shareholders, it is they who shall decide who gets it, and rightly so. No dount the EU dirty boots will have an impact though.

hope u like the ferry if it does happen,

So if the offer is accepted and you won’t ever fly Aer Lingus again, who will you fly with?
If you’re answer is Ryanair then I don’t get the prompt for your statement – if it’s a third carrier then obviously competition exists – again then, what’s with everyone claiming MONOPOLY?

The ferry is very expensive

Like a bus service? So no competition, routes constantly getting scrapped, increasing fares every month with no other company to go to for a better fair.

Lots of profitable routes have great competition, limerick to Dublin has at least 3 operators prob the same with Galway and cork. Only reason there isn’t competition for the less travelled routes is that they don’t make money so why would someone try an compete with bus eireann on a loss making route?

Ryanair is a great service, not the best quality but that doesn’t bother me, in general I’m more than happy to go the cheapest route.

Ryanair buying AL could be interesting though..another brand for Ryanair to use and they could possibky offer a more upmarket service..they could also start offering a budget transatlantic service..could be good…I voted no but i could see how it could turn out to be positive

I’m talking about DublinBus. Now the fares are at 1.90 and rising.

“Ryanair buying AL could be interesting though..another brand for Ryanair to use and they could possibky offer a more upmarket service..they could also start offering a budget transatlantic service..could be good…I voted no but i could see how it could turn out to be positive”.

Ryanair “could possibky offer a more upmarket service..they could also start offering a budget transatlantic service”, without buying Aer Lingus. Ryanair do not need a monopoly to decide to offer further choice to customers in Ireland, Monopoly means less choice and higher prices, the only benificiary being the monopolist. Ryanair have never gone transatlantic because people are more price insensitive on longer routes, would you put up with Ryanair for 10 hrs to save 50 euro, many would but not as many as to make it profitable furthermore the costs of transatlantic are higher with overnight crew and the need for two separate fleets of jets with different maintenance crews etc, Ryanair currently only flys one type of boeing jet. Unless you want no choice and higher prices or you act out of self interest as a shareholder for a short term gain, there appears to be no obvious motivation to want a Ryanair monopoly.

That’s my point, no one would want to put up with ryanair for 10 hours..but Ryanair under the guise of AL would attract a lot of customers. As it has been mentioned before Ryanair probably lose a lot of business because of the negative image associated with them. Controlling AL Would allow them to cater for these people, business ppl etc. who would normally be put off by the Ryanair brand

Ryanair under the guise of AL is still Ryanair, if you feel a great transatlantic service is available from Ryanair if they could just shed their image problem. they could set up a new brand, they certainly have the cash and allowing a Ryanair monopoly just so they can ditch their image problem and do a transatlantic service is hardly a good reason to have a Ryanair monopoly but also completely unnecessary as there is nothing stopping them for using a different brand for the Atlantic as it stands. Aer Lingus is no barrier to Ryanair offering any type of service it wishes.

I’d rather BA took over AL than Ryanair. Willie Walsh their manager is also Irish. I feel AL will eventually be taken up by one of the middle eastern airlines.

All true but Ryanair model is morally bankrupt if you have the misfortune of working for them. flight attendants worked to the bone for 1200€ a month. remind yourself of that fact next time u analyse this wall mart in the sky.

Now Aidan, come on – nobody wants to read that kind of sensible pragmatism, especially Unite, Siptu and TEEU.

Exactly. I’d love to see AerLingus being run with a good management team.

Absolute codswallop!! If Ryanair get their hands on Aer Lingus they will own every airport in this country! They will drive out other airlines and shed staff across the board. Airports will lose money, existing jobs will be lost and wages will be slashed. Your airline fares will rise, your comfort will suffer and the impact on the exchequer with hit every person in this country right were it hurts.

Aer lingus is not costing the tax payer money. Its could certainly cut costs further but it is a stand alone profitable business.

Tom, stop excusing inefficiency with broad statements like that. Great – if Aer Lingus is standalone, profitable and actually benefitting the state, keep it. But if it is a drain on resources, why should the state be saddled with it. I dont know its financial circumstances. Unfortunately, we are living in tough times and have to compete to survive. If we become inefficient/more inefficient we will end up like Greece. It would seem that this country of ours is slowly but surely getting itself out of a mess. It doesnt need to slip back into the mess by supporting/propping up businesses/initiatives that are of no value to the state and a drain to it.

I actually agree with you here. Were we seem to be missing each other is on who should the Airline be sold too. Now everything I said above is based on Ryanair’s own track record in the aviation business. There is no doubt that Aer Lingus needs to be sold, I for one am sick of tax payers money endlessly being pumped into Aer Lingus but I’d be damned to see us do a deal with the Devil and the devil for this country would be a sale to Ryanair.

The country owns a large part of the airline. The only consideration is – what is best for the country? Not what is best for a few select people.

Etihad have recently bought a 5% stake in AL. Indeed the national airline is on the decline. In the future there will be a nod to the national airline’s origin, but under the umbrella of alliances. It can already be seen with the livery changing to predominantly display the alliance an airline belongs to.

Well said Jackie – why should Aer Lingus be protected in its ways when the rest of us have to make massive sacrifices and ‘efficiencies’. It is a business. If the business can survive and create money for the state, keep it. If it cant in its present form, reform it or get rid (to a business that can make the company work).

Both Jackie and Aiden are making wrong and ignorant comments!nnAer Lingus provide a well priced (much cheaper then the likes of BA) and modern competitive product (far better then BA, I know cos I work for BA). Also those airlines you mention also have pension troubles! nnGet your facts right before spouting off!n

Tony – why dont you get your knickers out of a twist before spouting yourself. I never said ‘get rid of Aer Lingus’. I said ‘get rid of Aer Lingus’ if it is another burden on the state. Maybe you are in a well paid job and can endure government inefficiency. I for one cant.

Aidan
The easily obtainable facts on Aer Lingus, Ryanair and BA are in stark contrast to your comments, we all have our view but stating comments which are clearly contradicted by facts is hardly beneficial to your view.

Every aircraft has ashtrays? It’s a legal requirement incase some idiot does light up! Aer Lingus operate one of the youngest fleets in the industry

Just what we need, an even more passive Ireland. THINK

You want an interventionist policy to support failing and loss making companies?

You think.

You want a monopoly on Irish airports. You want one airline calling it’s own tune for landing costs? You want job losses and wage cuts across the board? Trust me your methods will just add more people to the dole Que and hit your and everyone else s pocket come budget time. O’Leary will be laughing all the way to the bank and our government will be sending the money to Brussels. Get it now?

Damocles – you are right. Let the market dictate. I wish the government would intervene and give me better conditions, mor money make me pay less tax etc. but I live in the real world (unlike quite a few commentators here)

Same old Ireland, everyone looking for a quick fix and paying the price for it later. YAWN

If there was the degree of a call for the sort of non-Ryan style airline that Aer Lingus is supposed to represent that people commenting here seem to portray then Aer Lingus wouldn’t be in any sort of difficulty and Ryan wouldn’t be able to even consider taking it over.

In fact a few people shout for wanting Aer Lingus to exist while most people continue to fly with Ryan.

If you want an alternate airline that doesn’t treat customers like cattle, doesn’t charge for having a rucksack and a carrier bag (only one piece of hand luggage, does it fit in the ever shrinking metal cage etc) and has allocated seating and all that is sweetness and light you should have used the Fungus enough to keep it in business.

If you don’t want to live in a free market economy there are other alternatives available, go to them.

Aidan, thanks, good to see another sane person.

Damocles Aer Lingus is not loss making or in any immediate financial trouble. It is a profitable stand alone business with a lot of cash in reserve. However it does have a pensions hole ( which is manageable but a conflict between staff and shareholders) and in the wider industry there is a view it will need to form alliances to fund future expansion. A state supported basket case it is not, there are still restrictive practises, overpay to some senior staff but alot of people at aer lingus (particularly junior staff) work as hard as they do in Ryanair. It is a profitable business and although Ryanair want to portray it as a coming to the rescue move by them it is more of a monopoly acquisition in Ireland with a few impossible to acquire landing slots in primary European cities move.

deal to ensure the Airline remains an Irish owned company.

Deal

Choice and competition or a Ryanair monopoly. Ryanair wont be better for the customer in a monopoly with non one biting at their heals to get their customers on price. If you hate Aer lingus an love Ryanair you have as much an opportunity to fly Ryanair now then you will have with a Ryanair monopoly, the only difference is you will pay a bit more for it.

How do you come to the conclusion of a Ryanair monopoly?

That Ann is called lack of competition on a route and if you allow Ryanair buy Aer Lingus that is what will occur on every route out of and into this island!!!!! nnOnly even your beloved stanstead will be a ripoff!!!!nnThink about it!

But it bad for the consumer!nnAre Irish people really so thick they can’t see that?

Aer Lingus aren’t reliant on the State.

They have a good bit of cash in the bank and having been holding their own for some time now.

sorry niall , you are very misinformed, aerlingus are so in debt, and owe their pensions millions, they are running at a loss, and have taken so many flights away they will close our airports, if delta and american airlines were not utilising shannon airport it would now be closed, it is used for american military and the only airport in ireland with a smoking area,, to accomadate americans, aer lingus have given up their flights to usa during winter months, so for example i am from kerry i can fly delta for 550 to usa, or pay over a 1000 to aerlingus and travel to dublin for another 100, i cant see why aerlingus are loosing money , dropping flights, and other companies can come in here with full flights, aer lingus are stuck in the past, their trolley dollys think they are above reproach, and are not accomadating on the long haul flights, i would go british airways or virgin before going on aerlingus, they know what service is, i think , aer lingus are on par with ryan air on the onboard service, they used to be the best dressed and now you look and shoes not polished, jackets and skirts are not on same fade chart, same as ryan air, 30 years ago aerlingus were a wonderful airline, but that was when it was a monopoly and flying for the elite, and coachs for the middle class, i think mikey o would bring some thing back if he could get aer lingus, something to our airports, our tourism, and all of that means money for ireland, we have galway, clare and limerick some of the most beautiful areas in the world i may add, and no flights coming in to our lovely western coast, sad but true, jobs going every day and different flight companys having to leave due to our governments over taxing , we need help with our airlines and i am sure when luthansa take over, you will have more to bitch about, and i do believe our government will sell to them, if not already in the works, as we the people are last to know, and flying luthansa is same as ryan air, so why not give an irish man a chance to keep something irish, we dont have much left to sell off, as germany now own 70 percent of our dear country since our yes vote, why cant we stop giving our little island away and have some faith

Jackie, you are VERY VERY wrong on all aspects of what you claim! Back up your facts!nnEI have over €940million in the bank FACT!nThey are turning a profit FACT!nThey have almost €1bn worth of slots in Heathrow FACT!nThey aircraft are some of the youngest, most economical and heavily utilised in Europe FACT!nnThe pensions scheme is a very different matter which if Ryanair did take over would also be straddled with!!!!nnYou need to brush up on your lies!

Tomy Iona

You should really check the facts because they are not supportive of your view. Aer Lingus do not receive money from the state and are a stand alone profitable company approx 70% owned by private shareholders (some of which are also staff of aer lingus) there is certainly room for an increase in efficiency but they actually outperformed Ryanair on many routes last year. Many people prefer Aer Lingus some prefer Ryanair like yourself but the point is with choice, each to their own, with a Ryanair monopoly……

You make some good points for me here. The overriding factor in this is that should Ryanair acquire Aer Lingus I fear not only will standards drop on our National carrier but Ryanair would by way of a monopoly virtually own every airport in this country.

National Carrier. You sound like it is the Irish Royal Family!!!! We dont have the money to afford the pride of maintaining a ‘National Carrier’

You know something Aidan I think you should go into politics. If consistency is important in Irish politics then there certainly is a place for you.

@ Aidan Kelly. We might not have the money for a national carrier, but I for one certainly don’t have the money to be held to ransom by Ryan Air either. Your myopia, and your reverence for capitalism is depressing. The Banking sector being left without meaningful regulation and state intervention is in a large part, what got us into this mess in the first place. But keep drinking that laissez-faire capitalism Kool-Aid if it floats your boat. Just don’t be surprised if it poisons you a little later on….

Are you confusing the airport authorities with a public company called Aer Lingus. if you feel Ryanair would immediately rejuvenate Shannon Airport why do they not do it now, any alleged benefit to the Irish consumer of a Ryanair monopoly could be provided by Ryanair now they don’t need to eliminate their competition to do it.

It was Ryanair that killed Shannon.
They came in with loads of routes and frequent flights to drive out the competition
Then once they dominated the traffic at the airport they delivered their ransom demands on passenger charges.
When they weren’t met they pulled out.

Andrew – you should have gone to Specsavers

?