Donal my respect to you i was in the service aswell.Sadly its a small cohort that get everyone tarred with the one brush.I saw it and still do where i work now.There is wasters in both the private and public sector happy for others to carry them.I has been my experience that generous sick pay schemes tend to make certain people sick.Again you have my respect stay safe.

@Davy Soup, Fellow civil servant here, and couldn’t agree more with you. The vast minority of lazy, useless, dead weight types give the rest of us a bad name.

Davy Soup, agree 100%. I’m a public servant and am over the moon with this. Twice I have seen the lazy & selfish you speek off being put under pressure to perform and pull their own weight. They went out sick, suffering from stress!! & the union backed them up and while their out the rest of us have to do their work and when they come back the minute something is said to them about doing their job their gone again. So frustrating to the majority of us.

Where are @Daisy Chainsaw and @Too Trueleft now. I worked in the Public Service for a number of years and can vouch for the fact that the majority of public servants are as hard working and diligent as the private sector counterparts. It is the selfish incompetent lazy minority that ruin it for everyone else. And unfortunately this minority are backed up by the unions. My decision to leave the public service was primarily down to the influence that unions had on day to day work practices within the service. I had come from the private sector and was used to working in a flexible environment where change was actively encouraged. In my experience the unions are responsible for most of what is wrong with the public service. I am sure they will try to block this change to sick leave entitlements.

They’re actually backing the changes Paul, if the reports today are anything to go by.

Well said all of you!

I am also a public servant and am very pleased with this outcome. The vast majority of us public servants don’t abuse the sick leave system and are tired of picking up the workload for those few that do abuse the system. I also feel that given the current economic climate this is one unnesseciary expense we just cannot afford.

What a ridiculous generalisation. Just because someone in the public sector isn’t front line staff, that doesn’t mean that most don’t work hard to serve the public well. There are some bad eggs on the frontline too.

@ Ruairi — So you reckon the clerk in Dept. of Agriculture or Fisheries runs the same risks to their personal health as the Fireman who has a burning building collapse on him or the Guard who has his patrol car rammed by a stolen car!?!? Don’t think paper-cuts are that severe!!

Not what I said at all, or what OpenMinded said either. Maybe you should read both points again and come back.

I’m slating the notion that not all Public Service workers should be considered the same!! For the record, I’m self-employed, but there should be two tier public sector distinguishing frontline emergency services from other public sector workers!! I don’t need a file clerk at 4am in the morning when my house is on fire or there’s some Junkie burglar at the foot of my bed demanding my car keys!!!

And I am not arguing with you. I merely suggested that there are good, hard working people in the administration side of the public sector too, and that it shouldn’t be overlooked. Also, that it shouldn’t be generalised that the the rest of the public sector do not have an important role to play in serving the public.

@Ruairí … I think OpenMinded is referring to on-the-job injuries (which may require sick leave) being more likely to occur to front-line staff than to staff working in administration. Surely those with a more physically hazardous job should be entitled to more paid time off if needed?

I actually have no problem with this as long as the critical illness issue is dealt with sensibly- the last thing a humane society wants is for someone with cancer or who needs something major like a joint replacement to defer it because of fears for their job and income- or to go back to work before they are fit to do so. There will always be the ones who milk the system, and this reduction is a good way to ensure this is less likely to happen, as long as the serious illness issue is properly dealt with- it is hard to fake cancer, heart attack or joint replacement etc .

I pay into a salary protection scheme but touch wood, I will never need it.

Im sick of the smokers i work with getting smoke breaks every hour and then taking 5 days a month sick leave for chest infections!

Hey, I have a good idea so. Let’s bring back benchmarking, that the logical next step in your argument

Not a member of this anti ps you speak of.But just an observation,who or what pays for the public sector.If you want to throw out figures as a whole the Public sector in total nearly twice as many sick days as the private sector.If you feel i’m wrong just google it.But as in the public sector if someone is missing everyone else picks up the slack.At least where i work.

As an employer (small business), I could well believe it. I once had a guy tell me that he proposed to add his sick days to his holidays so that he could be away for longer! Was none too happy when I refused. More recently, an employee left to emigrate and asked me to pay her for her untaken sick leave!! It’s far to easy to get up on our high horses and give out about the public service. Like it or not, the private sector has, proportionally, just as many bad apples.

@Norman: I think it’s reasonably fair to say that the costs incurred by private sector employers for their employees’ sick leave is often passed on to the consumer in some shape or form.

But at least in the private sector you can let the useless ones go.

just to say I work for the council and I never got this .

I don’t bash them either but some of the things that my girlfriend (works in HR in a council) tells me are madness.

@John Ryan. I would have thought that the issues that an employee in the HR department of a local authority are confidential.

@ John Ryan. deal with

@Bert McCann as long as she is just telling about the things people get away with without using names then that’s fine, it is the public sector and the public have a right to know what goes on.

Incorrect Jason. If the ‘things’ Johns girlfriend tells him became her knowledge through her role in her HR department then that information is covered by the data protection act. The only ‘rights’ in question is the right of the individual disclosing that information to the HR department that the information remains confidential. It is a serious breach of trust and data protection guidelines for any person to disclose that information willy nilly to a third party.

Yea, like no one ever tells their partner about what goes on in work.

Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. It could be somebody discussing information you gave in confidence.

Somebody’s figure’s don’t add up here. Brendan Howlin is saying the current cost of sick leave in the Puublic Service stands at “over €500 million annually”.
In response to a parliamentary question earlier this month from Simon Harris TD it was revealed that the Public Service took 181,665 sick days during 2011 and the estimated total cost came to €26,502,882. That’s €26 million, not the €500 million Minister Howlin quoted. RTE quotes the Minister at saying €550 million.
Figures like this can be + or – a certain percentage, I accept that, but to see one figure quoted and then see another used by a minister to suit his purposes that is almost 20 times the first is just a little beyond belief.
The €26 million figure assumes a credible average daily wage of €145 whereas I wish we got the average daily wage of the €500 million figure of €3027. Which one seems more credible?

The €26 million was only the cost of CIVIL service sick pay a small fraction of overall PUBLIC service sick pay.

@Gavin No, this was the total for all 14 Public Service Departments as reported in The Journal on 4/712

http://www.thejournal.ie/e26million-the-bill-for-sick-leave-in-the-public-service-509224-Jul2012/

Agreed. Let’s not be divided. Same working conditions for everybody. Sounds good?

A nurse suffering from flu can ” logon to facebook or check her mail at home “, should she “really be in work” in the incubation ward or assisting in the operating theater?

Yes

Cheers for that ruaidhri. Your lack of compassion for premature sick babies fits in perfectly with your ‘poor me’ attitude from your original post.

Tear up all public servant contracts and renegotiate sensible work related salaries! The country can’t afford slackers anymore!

Er, Ruadhri, if that nurse is working with patients with diminished immunity (ICU, Maternity, Geriatrics etc) then if she had ‘flu she would be endangering the lives of the people she is there to care for. She would required to stay away from work due to protocol..

But you’d have realised that had you ever paid attention to the myriad posters in hospitals and nursing homes politely asking you to stay the f*** away if you have the flu!

You make public servants out to be martyrs to the cause!! When in truth they see 7 sick days a year as additional holiday entitlement to be used at will.

Got there before me daisy. The halving of uncertified days could well be counterproductive.in the long run. My own family doctor issues certs on the basis of when SHE, not you, thinks you’ll be fit to return to work, and rightly so.

Tony, do you have proof to back up your statement, or do you know someone who knows someone who heard that someone saved up their sickies and went to Spain for a fortnight?

You can take a max of 2 days uncertified, after that you need a cert. You can’t take them over a weekend because that counts as 4 days sick an you need a cert. You can’t combine sickies with annual leave so they can’t be used “at will”.

Oh boy, you’ve gone and done it now Daisy. Don’t you know common sense and the facts aren’t allowed in discussions relating to the public service. Only myths, Chinese whispers and vitriol are permitted.

@ Tony Nugent. Youi have some proof of your stat
ement or is it more golf club/dinner party wisdom?

Daisy you want stats??

http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/article_1022988.shtml

Public service sick leave rate is nearly double that of the private sector!!
Stats don’t lie, and before you start bangin on about nurses dealing with the sick, private hospitals deal with the sick also.

The IBEC ‘report’? LOL!

Any other biased reports from lobbying organisations for us?

@Tony Nugent: Where in that report does it provide statistics or factual instances to back up your statement “When in truth they see 7 sick days a year as additional holiday entitlement to be used at will”

@ tony nugent. Sorry but your wrong. I’ve taken 2 days sick leave in 3 years… Therefore your lazy generalisation is just plain wrong….

Would go futher and say anyone that is off sick should only be entitled to what someone would get on the dole. €37.60 a day.

Unless you pay into some sort of wage protection scheme.n

Teachers are the biggest culprits!

Are you saying no-one in the private sector abuses the current sick-pay system? That it doesn’t need reform? Even the unions wouldn’t agree with you there. In many private companies of you don’t show up for work you don’t get paid because companies can’t afford to pay. The state is now in the same position I.e. broke. Not saying all public sector workers abuse the system but many do, the present system is a farce and needs major reform, today’s doesn’t go far enough.

Caroline, wake up and smell the real world. If this happened in the private sector the company would go bankrupt!

David, then get a job in the public sector and shut up moaning! If we have it so good then why didnt you get a PS job?

Put a private Income protection plan in place and you’re income would be protected Dec. I’m sure that a union backed group scheme could be put together if there is a significant reduction in illness pay for Public Servants after the proposed timeframes. A large group scheme for public servants would be pretty cheap as well.

So what happens when someone in the private sector goes over their, eh ZERO days of paid sick leave and has a chronic illness? That’s what social welfare illness benefit etc. is for. 3 months paid sick leave is MORE than generous.

Kat,

I would not like to to have survive on Social Welfare Benefit if I were to suffer a major illness that left me out of work for 3mnts+. The last thing anybody needs at a time like that is to be worried about their finances.

While I do agree with you that 3 months of full pay & 3 motnhs half pay is a gilt edged package, I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that those in the public service were offered this as part of their package initially and halving the benefit is a very significant reduction in their terms.

The country is broke my eye.Look at all the festivals.Volvo ocean Race etc……Where do they get all that money from :-|

@Caroline Locke, enjoying training as a space cadet??

@Caroline. Are you serious? Have you ever heard of sponsorship? Do you realise that the Volvo Ocean Race 100 million into the local economy?

A computer won’t drag you and your loved ones out of a burning house Mick. A public servant will.

Ha ha!! The clowns are straight in with their moronic comments again… Good one!! Get your laptop to care for your sick relatives, then.

@Mick Byrne. Good luck with that. You’d be the first to complain when services go down the tube as a result.

“Do away with the public service” you’re some genius, what happens the next time you need the services at the end of the 999 line?

But even if you remove the people and replace them with computers, the computers are still doing the Public Service. So is it the people you want done away with or the function of Government undertaking tasks on behalf of the people?

As I am a nurse how do you replace me with a computer ? When your going to surgery or arrive in Emergency department after an accident will a computer meet u at the door with a caring smiling face and reassure you that you will get the best of care ????

He’s a bit simple, I think. Bless him.

@Mick byrne

You’re a definite candidate for idiotic comment of the week.

Two words for you Mick: Ulster Bank.

@ cathy. I can’t remember the last time a smiling nurse greeted me at the doors of the emergency department… It’s usually a grumpy one lol….

Ulster Bank is part of the public sector :D

@censored Ulster Bank is owned by Royal Bank of Scotland.

I’m kidding. Who owns RBoS these days?

Of course, when they were purely private sector they did manage to crash the global economy. So I suppose things are improving!

One tenth of 7 days uncertified sick leave is .7 days i.e. necessitating a trip to the doctors for every single instance of single day absence which in all likelihood will result in the doctor certifying a longer absence.

Good man, didn’t really think that through, did ya?

Forget u want me to take a pay cut because u took a 40% cut. Can u please tell me what u had for dinners so I can have the same . U have a big oul chip on ur shoulder miss

The pensions that we have no option but to contribute to?

NO THEY CANT!!!
The only people who can get full pension without doing providing 40 years service, now 43, are politicians!