These politician do not run this country any more,they are merely managers..the European parliament run it and will stop at nothing till they get it.they are putting countries in debt taken the reigns and power away for themselves changing our laws

Eddie. the politician of this country put us in the position we are in and if it wasn’t for Europe we’d be worse off. I don’t like it either.

Business people supported it, because it don’t effect them, FG are shrewd boyos and slimey snakes! Where are the Guillotines, warm them up!

That’d be too quick and not painful enough, they should be screwed in every sense of the word, then they’ll have a sense of reality.

now let us have our vote to get rid of these wasters and use the savings to help pay for the carers ect

We live in a Dictatorship, this is the future and Europe to come!

Correct stephen there already pushing for a federal european system the future is bleak…

Abolish it and replace it with a second house made up of actual experts. Right now it is a retirement home for failed politicians and a training ground for new ones. We need a second house that comprises of independent law, economic and socio-political experts to give genuine guidance to the lawmakers in the Dail. Right now its a disgrace and a waste of taxpayer money. We need a genuine but fair counterweight to the Dail.

Actually we live in a Democracy and a majority is a majority. It is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that the decision was made by people who were merely business people or allegedly Illegitimate Members of the Senate.

Michael J Collins I don’t think the people voted in the last general election for those in both houses to cut child allowance across the board impacting those who earn nothing or the minimal wage to the same extent as some one earning €100k. I’m pretty sure when I cast my vote I was not voting to penalise home carers for saving the state thousands of euros per year. It’s not democracy and it’s not representing me or many people I know. Sadly we elected people who have no care for the old and infirm or those who are struggling to survive, Shame on both houses and shame on the voters of Ireland.

That’s exactly the perfect formula for an upper house in a bicameral system of government. Well said!

It is extraordinary to think that some people are of the opinion that they vote for line by line Budgetary positions in General Elections. At best they vote for the idea of a Party Manifesto as represented by a particular candidate or Party but when that Party doesn’t receive an overall majority then a negotiated Programme for Government is agreed by compatible Groups who can form a simple majority.
Simples.

@mixhael where do you get this stuff from…fg and lab have lied from the start and misled people into voting

My comment was for Jason Culligan’s excellent suggestion.

Your “simples” Michael J says a lot.

Not trueyp………..you’re deluded……

Totally agree with you…. And I wish that was the governments big plan…and there just playing a long game here borrowing and borrowing until bang…. We know the country is bust… But perhaps and more worryingly these guys think we can and will pay it all back one day…. It’s scary… Ok there will be a deal on the promissory note, but by now that’s probably the least of our finically concerns its a drop in the ocean in comparison to the bottom line if the balance sheet….No amount of Cuts won’t get is out… The day if bust is coming it just has too…

If there game is to borrow as much as they can and go bust im up for that…

However if they think we can pay it all back there just dumb…

Either way were bust sooner or later just hope they know it and are not dumbstruck when it happens….

It won’t stop unless we the people stop it and fix it.

I’m not waiting another 3 years…. Holy cow it’s just so awful now… IMO this has Already gone way too far and to top it off not one white collar criminal or politician in jail or behind bars after 5 years…. Revolution people revolution…. This is not a democratic country…. Not by a long way…

Mojo
A majority of our Senate voted today for a proposal and you describe it as undemocratic while also calling for a Revolution. Could you advise us as to how the decision could have been anything other than the will of the people when more than half supported it?

I think you have mixed up the “people” with a bunch of old for the most part career politicians Michael. It’s not the will of the people it’s the party whip’s will. Nothing else.

Mojo, this is s democratic country, we just voted in muppets and we do it at every election. We need less TDs, no senate, more transparency and accountability.

Michael a majority of the senate voted alright…. But bear in mind if the vote against there own parties policy they lose rights…. Case in point James hefferman… Democratic my arse…. Tow the line or deflect… That’s the only reason this bill or many others for that matter get passed…. This is a farce and a fraud…

Mojo
I sony want to break your heart but a win is a win and onward go the Government. Just relax …it will be better

Are you for real. FG had a backlash in the polls after they were rumbled for renegading on their manifesto, lying and continuing the bad banking decisions, not to mention the bankers budget and puppetry in the EU. Now the pro-lifers or what ever their called are calling for his head over the x legislation. They won’t see a second term and will be lucky if any faces stick around to have the privilege of sitting in the opposition benches. Annihilated doesn’t even come close.

Ryan, we have no alternative to the government, FF destroyed this country, SF talk nonsense and after that we have nothing….

Brillant?

** Fergal Quinn.

Hi Mary, I’m sorry if my comment read in an arrogant way, or that you felt it insinuated people on social welfare are scrounges. Neither were intended.
My only point was that we have a finite amount of resources, I feel that social welfare was well protected, both by keeping rates high by international standards and, while increasing taxes, NOT increasing them to the point where it’s more beneficial to be on social welfare. If the balance is struck too far in either direction we all suffer more. Also, this is a public forum, so lets at least keep it clean, and have respect for other opinions that we may disagree with.

Apologies Colm, comment written in haste. Am extremely upset and disgusted with this budget. Government keep going on about the core payments weren’t touched, however a career with children is down nearly €20 a week between the various budget cuts. Where is the justice in that? I’m struggling to come to terms with the fact that my child will not have the carefree childhood every child deserves. Cuts are being doing discreetly also. you have to purchase a rain cover for the specialised buggy that once came free with it. this rain cover costs €200, can you imagine supplying a buggy to somebody in Ireland minus the rain over? It’s a myth that respite care grant is spent on holidays and breaks, mine was spent on servicing my car and putting new tyres on it as I’m constantly on the road with appointments…i appreciate that cuts had to be done but why not cut right across the board.

Wishing you and yours a very happy christmas.

The problem is our SW rates aren’t as high as you think especially with the cost of fuel & electricity being rised(and the government making no effort to keep them low whatsoever).

There are other ways of raising funds.

I think ur prob right… We been more than patient here in this island and the country is nowhere near where it should be… Time to stand together…. Time to fight… time to put the irish people first… Time to be the not so agreeable and invisibles in Europe…. Time to get the finger out…

With respect to your comment, what this Country needs is very simple. We need a write down on the banking debt or the bailout funds provided and that don’t go far enough. We have and “only because of the bailout forced on us” to borrow countless billions more to run the country. I reckon without the bailout we would have have to borrow max of 50 billion before we recovered. But we all now know how this bailout has cost us much much more than just the bailout money given by the trio….

Colm
You are absolutely right. The answer is simple . We should advise the Troika that we want a deal on the Banks and in return we will drop our current overspending of twelve billion by reducing all Social Welfare payments to the European Lower quartile. This would put us at a benchmarked level in line with our economic performance. Spending on Healthcare will be benchmarked at a similar level and Public Service salaries will be brought in line with Private Sector pay.
No more borrowing and a huge drop in the Social Protection employment disincentives.
That’ll stop the whingers in their tracks.

Actually Michael I’d just say we want the money back that the ECB forced us to hand over, possibly illegally . Much more straight forward then what you suggest. Oddly enough the IMF would probably agree, not our friends in the ECB or EU though. Beware the enemy within – Marcus Tullius Cicero.

I think there is an widely undiscussed argument there around the net-off impact of the bailout and the cost of paying bond holders, and debt write downs vs. future borrowing needs.
I’m gonna pluck some figures from memory here, may not be entirely accurate, but I think it’s close. At the peak we had annual tax take of 80bn, closer to 40bn this year. The real bottom out was 2010, but including the lead up from 2008, I reakon we’re down about 170bn in 5 years. I just don’t see how we can reasonably expect to keep things at 07/08 levels with this.
There are international limits on borrowing even outside of a bailout agreement. I would love to see some proportionate figures in terms of the percentage of revenues going towards social welfare, health, education etc. now vs. 2006/07/08.

Colm
Instead of benchmarking ourselves against a particular year and face the wrath of so many barstool economists/scrounges why not benchmark us against the lower quartile in Europe where we fairly sit now and drop everything accordingly.

Hi Michael, I definitely agree with the PS pay benchmarking idea, it was done when it went upwards, but now they have Croke Park. That needs to go. On social welfare I think there’s room for means testing and cost indexing so that the really poor aren’t made to bear an unfair burden. But def a proportionate burden. Healthcare I think should be privatised full stop, accept say 0 -5 and 70+ years. Let a free market drive prices down, and standards up.
There’s another 3bn to go next year, Croke park is the first place I’d look for it.

Eh no!

This just shows the vindictive spirit behind those that support the budget. This doesn’t “Need” to be done, it’s actually hurting our economy more than helping it. An economy is not like a household.