@James Leahy: Why didn’t Aer Lingus offer them 16% to match the inflation since 2019 which they probably would have accepted and more than likely will be what will settle this dispute.

@Leonard Barry: Hi Leonard are you pats brother or just a close friend.

@Leonard Barry: Inflation hasn’t been 16%. Its under 13%. Aer Lingus Pilots is already one of the highest paid pilots in Europe. Name one single industry that has offered employees a pay rise in line with inflation. The reason the labour court recommended 9.25% is because that’s the standard rate that’s been given across most industries. Aer Lingus Pilots are greedy and are not only disrupting holidaymakers’ lives; they are disrupting businesses and putting the company at risk, along with the livelihoods of the ground staff. Outside their own little bubble, apart from the socialist anti-corporate brigade, they have no support. If they think they are underpaid, they should maybe go get a job at Ryanair. FYI, Aer Lingus funds the training and accommodation/food during it for their pilots and still offers better rates of pay than Ryanair. People on here are talking about corporate greed yet can’t see the greed in holding a company and the public to ransom for a pay rise that would equate to the national average wage on top of their already high wages.

@James Leahy: Why? Well genuinely how negotiations work is to ask for more than you want so you can bargain down to what you want. For example if I’m looking for a 16% Pay rise I’ll ask for 24% knowing on hearing 24% my employer will offer me around a 10% rise. Then we negotiate an acceptable figure for both of us between 10% and 24%.

@Pat Barry: from January 2019 to May this year inflation is 21.71% as per CSO. That’s a fact! Don’t know where you pulled 16% from…..
https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity/cpicalculator

@Ger Whelan: thanks Ger you just described the definition of greed right there.

@Mike Carson: Mike you sound like you work for EI management with all these false statements. Inflation is not under 13% since 2019. It’s been widely reported during the cost of living crisis that it’s around 20%…. It’s actually 21.71%….. public sector increases are close to inflation. They’re around 20% since 2019 with 3 more increases until the end of next year…… Fake news in all of your posts against the pilots!…..

Here’s where I sourced my factual data https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity/cpicalculator

@Mike Carson: their company profits are huge. Why would pilots settle for crumbs when they can get the whole loaf.
Anyone in their position would do the same.
The labour court is not interviening because both sides
are firmly sticking to their guns.
As far as customers are concerned. it’s the company who is responsible for their lost flights. They make the profits.
People who compare ryanair to air lingus. It’s like apples and oranges. Ryan air treat their staff terribly. They are the public health system of aviation.
Good luck to the pilots.

@James Leahy: you call it greed all you want. What’s the alternative for employees to accept their employers lowball offers and race to the bottom?

@john logan: So you think that 9.25% is fair while the initial offer was 12.5%, which other staff got, profit is 225m and forecast to grow and inflation is 21%?!?!!….. WOW, do you understand what fair means?

@Leonard Barry: The pilots are looking for 24%. Should they get it that would mean that pilots at the top of the pay scale would receive a pay rise of €50,000 per annum. That’s crazy. Inflicting hardship upon the general public as a result of greed is not justifiable.

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: This is from the Forsa union – Price inflation is slightly lower when considered over the four years from 2019 to 2023. The CPI increased 16.9% and the HICP increased 15.8%. Inflation obviously isn’t in yet for this year and is forecast to be around 2%.

@Pat Barry: Forsa is the umbrella union for the IALPA group.

@Leonard Barry: They are offering 12.5%, and more, but are seeking extra productivity for the more.

@john logan: that would be IALPAP. What do you make of the 66% increase received by management? It’s evident to me that they are the only ‘bullies’ in this scenario.

@Pat Barry: So CSO and Eurostat are wrong?!?! Highly doubtful. Go into the CSO inflation calculator and confirm it for yourself.

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: The labour court determines what’s fair using all facts to hand. Perhaps they missed the CSO inflation figures. You should let them know about their oversight.

@Colette Byrne: Ryanair is run well as a business and they serve their customers well. They treat their staff within the remit of the law. Did they not just buy a load of houses to house their staff? I’m no fan of O’Leary but I’d love to see him over the HSE.

@Pat Barry: They’re seeking a pay restoration effectively.. as they haven’t had a pay rise since 2019. You do know how inflation and the value of money works in tandem with it ?? Nowhere do you address the fact that they are also seeking parity with other pilot’s in the same organisation. Would you see fit to reduce those pilot’s wages to come in line with the 12.5 per cent you deem to be fair ? And finally get the 24 per cent out of your head. Its called bargaining.. they’ll probably settle for circa 18-20 per cent. Is that how you negotiate? Start with the absolute minimum your willing to accept? Please don’t tell me you work in sales ? Lol

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: Give me a break, CSO quango with over a 110 employees with an average salary of €80K, glorified market researchers. Don’t you not think the union representing the pilots would be the one’s bigging up the inflation figures?

@john logan: 3% LESS than what other EI staff got is fair?!?! No wonder terms and conditions are being driven into the ground everywhere with those sort of decisions.in favour of companies/the state

@Colette Byrne: Yet Ryanair is more profitable than Aerlingus. Ryanair is also more reliable, from my experience. I’ve taken several flights to Madrid this year. I flew twice with aer lingus and 3 times ryanair. My Aerlingus flight was delayed both times on the way back, and I found the staff not overly pleasant, not bad, just not what you’d expect from a supposed premium airline. Three flights with ryanair. Three times on time. flight was almost half the price, even with priority boarding, a cabin bag, and the extra legroom seat. It flew into the same airport, albeit a different terminal, but no biggie. I had major issues with Aer Lingus before in London and almost missed the flight due to ticketing issues with BA, their sister airline. The staff on the ground were appalling, and I actually had to fight to get on my flight.Im sure Ryanair has had it problems, but it seems more common with aer lingus in my experience. I don’t see ryanair pilots taking industrial action if conditions are so bad. I also don’t see employees from other larger multinationals taking action against their employees just because the companies are making billions in profit. Aer Lingus pilots get well paid for their job, and if it weren’t for their greed, they would of gladly accepted the 13% offered to them. Ryanair is far from the public health system of airlines; they are actually the complete opposite; they are profitable, streamlined, and actually provide the service they set out to do. You clearly have no understanding of the reality of what’s going on if you compare one of Europe’s largest and most successful airlines with Europe’s worst-underperforming, inadequate public health service. Aer Lingus profits were 225 million last year. Ryanair 2.2Billion. You clearly have an issue with success and are a typical begrudger. Are you unemployed? No skill or third-level education? expecting everything handed to you, or are you just to lazy to go get a job and expect hard-working people to pay your way? You seem to think others should be responsible for you. Bet you will be the first to give out about the nanny state if they place restriction of bans on c

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: As I said Labour court make their recommendations on all information available to hand. For their own credibility I imagine that they source all these facts from publicly available verifiable data sources. So all state published economic data would be admissible along with industry specific validated barometers. You can’t just take one fact in isolation. The world is a bit more nuanced than that. If pilots don’t like the decisions then maybe best course of action would be to find another airline. Most would not be able to secure those salaries with other airlines though. That leaves them with no option other than acting the bully and hold holidaymakers to ransom. No-one likes a bully!

@Brian: Aer Lingus regional airline Emerald pilots got 10%, a good link I’d say.

@KB: So, did you miss the hyphen then ?
I Am Low Paid Airline-pilot ( IALPA ). Thanks for the opportunity to repeat it. It’s quite catchy, don’t you think ?

@Brian: You do know that increased salaries push up the inflation rate?

Pure greed from the glorified bus drivers

@Pat Barry: It’s A factor.. not the sole factor .. now address my point about parity with pilot’s in the same organisation and at least acknowledge you understand how bargaining works.. you do right ?

@Brian: So you want pilots working out of four different countries to be paid the same?! Ridiculous. You do know that pay is only one part of remuneration yes? There are also conditions, bonuses, pensions, stockholding etc.

@James Leahy: because that’s what a ‘rise’ is. Matching inflation isn’t a rise. Simples.

@Mike Carson: Brilliant reaction Mike Carson to an “entitled” profit begrudger.
In my experience also, as a weekly traveller, Ryanair is a much better airline to travel with. Their staff are top class and their pilots don’t wear those old Russian military style striped uniforms as an extra bonus.

@marklars81: . You most certainly would not.

@Mike Carson: Your attitude is a brilliant description of how hard working, tax paying people are making Ireland such a wealthy country and the envy of so many people. These pilots appear to come from the old Are Lingus of the 60′s when they were looked up to like gods and treated accordingly by the company. Remember that nowadays private companies have to make a profit to survive.

@Mike Carson: You should change job, get higher pay to protect the value of your income. That increase of 3.5% gross is around 2% net.You’re alot worse off than 4 years ago! Use your paycheck and the CSO inflation calculator to verify… Fair play to the pilots who are fighting to protect the value of their pay against a greedy employer. Hopefully they will be successful and the rest of Aerlingus staff will put in claims to match. IAG made over 3 BILLION profit last year with more forecast this year. Corporations are good, corporate greed is bad.. Your stance on inflation and remuneration is laughable! Bend over for corporate management who love nothing more than reducing the terms of staff to make more profit. If 3.5% is enough to keep you happy while inflation is 21% I feel sorry for you

@Mike Carson: Every middle income earner is cringing now, reading you’re no worse off than 4 years ago. they complain on here they can’t afford to live and it’s the free for all who get everything and are living the high life. Wouldn’t expect someone who hasn’t been impacted by the cost of living crisis to understand those who have.
I’m not against people earning a good living, I’m all for it. But I am against corporate greed.
For too long it’s be an employers market reaping profits yet cutting jobs for more profits. Eventually, it comes back to bite them.

@Jim Connolly: surely these well paid pilots are well retired
If from air dingus of the 60s, on great pensions.

@another one? What’s going on is the semi-state sec: Don’t feel sorry for me. I have a brand new car I purchased in January. My mortgage was cleared last year. I’m on a salary well above the national average. I can afford to put one kid through college and the other through school; I can afford to go on numerous trips throughout the year with my whole family; and I am still able to go away with my partner for a nice weekend. I will also be getting another pay rise in July breaks both in Ireland and abroad, and I can still save for a rainy day. Inflation hasn’t affected me because I bettered myself and achieved a job with a pay scale that can absorb it, like pilots pay. I started off at the bottom, and I can still go up thanks to the evil, greedy corporation I work for. I actually have more disposable income because I was able to pay off my mortgage. Last year. I get played above average for my position in my current company than I would get from others, so that offsets the 3.5%. Don’t feel sorry for me; I’m doing very well for a college dropout.

@Colette Byrne: I’m not affected because of my own hard work and drive. I’m not responsible for others. You say you are against corporate greed, but if it weren’t for the lure of wealth these corporations make, they wouldn’t exist, and the jobs they create along with them wouldn’t exist either. Is it not greed driving pilots to look for an extra €50,000 a year?

@Colette Byrne: FYI, it’s an employee market out there if you actually go and get the skills. Companies can get enough engineers, at all levels, to work for them, and it has nothing to do with pay.

@Mike Carson: You think 3.5 percent is in line with inflation for the past 4 years? Who told you that .. The multi national you work for ? You’re actually embarrassing yourself at this stage. You’ve told us your life story now a few times.. inspiring stuff altogether.. surely going to be made into a movie.You’re sense of gratitude and loyalty to the multi national you work for is quite evident.. and thats your own business. Howevet,trying to equate your own life and work experience against others and their dealings with corporations, whilst claiming unequivocally you’re right, is the height of ignorance. You have a very myopic view of the world and industrial relations..suppose all them years being brainwashed whilst in servitude to your multi national God will do that..

@Mike Carson: we are all responsible for others, that is what makes a healthy Society, if we all had the attitude of I’m OK feck everyone else. Our society would break down what we are seeing now on our streets,
Is only the beginning. the lure of corporations, a lure is what you use to reel a defenceless fish.
So you certainly have been sucked in hook line and sinker.
Corporation are here because of our low tax rate nothing else, I know many corporate employees whose jobs went over night, cause the companies decided to go to Mexico or Malaysia. Cause they pay less and less tax.
So where’s the loyalty to their staff, who were doing what you are doing now, defending and selling their company.

@Mike Carson: can I ask your make and model of car please?

@Brian: I was merely trying to highlight that I, along with pilots, already earn a fair wage and quite more than the national average as is. I don’t see people on here saying a Starbucks employee should get a 24% pay raise. Starbucks generated $24.5 billion in 2023. You get paid what you are worth. If you want board members to pay, get yourself into a position of becoming one rather than complaining about them. The reason people earn higher wages is not because it was handed to them; it is because of drive and ambition. Aer Lingus generates far less revenue than Ryanair and pays it’s pilots more. The sense of entitlement that people deserve more without offering extra is laughable. No Pilot in aer lingus was negatively impacted by cost of living crisis and should be grateful they were in a position not to of been. If a company wont pay you what you feel you’re worth, you can go to another company, not hold people to ransom, and risk the jobs of other employees in the organisation for your greed. Like I said, plenty seemed appalled by IAGs greed yet seem to ignore pilots greed, some looking for an extra €50,000 a year.!! Next, your type will be moaning about the cost of air travel if it has to rise to cover the cost of the pay increase. Aer Lingus is a business not a charity and it employs 4000 people directly not to mention all the indirect employment it creates. How many people do you employ? The pilots actions are putting some of those 4000 jobs at risk. That’s selfish and greedy. Yes executives get paid more so what. That’s across all industries. Should McDonald’s employees in the stores all be on €50k a year? Should fuel attendants be paid the same amount as a mechanical engineer in an aerospace company?

@Mike Carson: You have written a lovely autobiography however the information you have provided is irrelevant. Salaries can only be compared like for like. A pilot salary can only be compared with a pilot salary. The same for any industry benchmark. These pilots want pay restoration, a cumulative increase in line with inflation as someone else has kindly linked to the CSO stats and to be paid in line with their peers in BA. Their demands are clear and simple and the company can afford to pay it. Aer Lingus are inflicting pain and misery on the travelling public as their overpaid management team has failed to adequately address a pay dispute that is two years in the making. These are the simple facts.

@Colette Byrne: That’s total BS, a line the lazy do, nothing will spout. Are you responsible for that man who beat a woman unconscious? Am I responsible for my neighbor’s kid if they decide to drop out of school and go on drugs? No, I am not; I am responsible for my family in my personal life. I’m also there to help and guide my friends, but I’m not responsible for them or their actions. I have a responsibility for my team at work, but I am not responsible for them outside of that. Others need to take responsibility for their own lives and actions. I’m not responsible for some guy with a drug addiction on the street. I didn’t put drugs in his hands. Plenty of people in Ireland bemoan the success of others and will drag down someone who does better and demands more for less. People in this country all have the means to better themselves; don’t begrudge those who avail of it. People are not responsible for everyone; we need to take responsibility for ourselves. No one gave me handouts, I relied on the support of my family, which is why I’m motivated today. Pilots are just being greedy. If they think they are underpaid, go work for a different airline, not hold it and the public to ransom.

@KB: Okay, compare the Aer Lingus salary with the Ryanair salary. Average Ryanair Pilot yearly pay in Ireland is approximately €45,753 Average Aer Lingus Pilot yearly pay in Ireland is approximately €88,287.

Like for like.

@Brian: I’m not brainwashed. I enjoy my career, and I actually get paid above the industry norm because I negotiated a pay raise. I also get health care, a good life assurance policy stock options. I also get an annual performance bonus. All this stuff i worked hard to achieve. It wasn’t handed to me, and I didn’t have to hold my company to a ransom for the payment. It was just a civilised discussion and negotiation. If I was unhappy with my level of pay, I could of tried countless other organisations. My employer has many jobs at many different levels of pay, all dependent on skill level and position within the company. It’s not brainwashing; it’s working and appreciating the hand that feeds me. If a different employer approached me in the morning with a better offer, I would most likely take it. I’m at a higher level at the moment in my current position, so options available to me are to stay put or get skilled in another role that will afford me better pay and keep climbing. Content where I am for now, as higher positions would require more of my time and more stress. Would i like €50k extra a year? Sure. Can i get it in my current role? Absolutely not. Do others in the company earn more? Absolutely. Do they deserve it? not for me to say. If you think that being grateful for being in a position to be financially stable—I’m not a millionaire by any stretch—and having a great work-life balance is brainwashing, I will assume there is something going wrong for you in your life. It is called being an average human in modern society. I don’t have the skill currently to become a millionaire, or billionaire, but I don’t call the ones who do greedy. They have the drive that the average person doesn’t. Aer Lingus pilots are looking for pay that is not in line with their job set. At least by Irish standards. Just because executives earn big salaries doesn’t mean they can extort the company.

@KB Apologies
The average Aer Lingus Pilot yearly pay in Ireland is approximately €88,287.
The average airline pilot base salary at Ryanair is €60,000 per year.

@Mike Carson: Nobody gives a siht about your mediocre career in a multinational man..So stop waffling on about it like its some sort of benchmark for mankind. Fk me your sense of self importance is astounding.. delusional in fact. You have the temerity to lecture people, not of your profession, what their value is and isn’t. Their payment claims don’t sit with your twisted logic of what they should be and your hyperbolic claims and misinformation around this suggests you have more skin in this than you’re letting on

@Mike Carson: that would be a starting salary and the comparison figure is still inaccurate. No one walks into that job at 80k. Certainly not from what I have read. Separately they don’t belong to the same parent company whereas BA and Aer Lingus too. This is the reason they are using this as an example as it’s the only really relevant one. Same parent group, same job and similar profit margin between the two companies.

@Mike Carson: Where have you pulled those bonkers salary figures from?!?! Please don’t say glassdoor or something like that. They are far from accurate. Laughable actually. You think the average Ryanair salary for a pilot is approx €45k?!?! That’s the national average wage for Irish citizens. You need to stop this trolling!!!!

https://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Ryanair

@Brian: I haven’t shown any examples of self-importance. That’s being delivered by the anti-corporate communists’, who demand an equal share of everything, regardless of whether they earn it or not. I’d even go as far as to assume that all the begrudgers and anti-corporate socialists giving out on this don’t have anything of meaning to offer society but are just looking to take all they can for free. One clearly uneducated rhetoric spouter even seems to think Ryanair is on par with our health service. That idiotic comment alone speaks volumes for the intelligence of the types who think its okay to hold the public and a company to ransom for an unrealistic demand. I’m not lecturing anyone. A person who believes it is OK for a pilot, who currently makes more money than the average for the industry in this country, to demand a more than average salary on top of their already high pay at the potential expense of other employees within the organisation and the general public, is the one who is delusional.

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: Broken record!

@Pat Barry: Says you. Don’t like facts thats your issue

@KB: Yes, the same parent group, with different pay scales for the different airlines. Ibera earns more than Aer Lingus pilots, just as BA pilots earn more than Ibera. Both Iberia and BA generate more revenue than aer lingus. It is similar for other companies. When I was new to my organization, we were sent to work for a few weeks in the US. We were warned not to disclose our pay as we were earning significantly more than our USA counterparts for the same work. While I would always agree that a fair wage should be paid, I would completely disagree with the extortionate demands the Aer Lingus pilots are making. They already earn a very high wage for the job. Just because Aer Lingus made profits of 225 million last year does not mean the pilots are entitled to a 24% pay raise. Should a barista at Starbucks be on €52k just because the corporation made €25 billion in profit for the past 12 months? In an ideal world, maybe, but then that would mean that inflation would skyrocket, everything else would increase in price, along with wages, and we are back to square one. People will call me a brainwashed corporate zombie or whatever, but the reality is, no matter how unfair it seems, that these entities are out to make profit no matter what, but without them, we wouldn’t have the luxuries or ability to afford them that we have today. Ireland would be a very different place without them.

@Mike Carson: you’re wrong, just give it a rest.

@Jim Connolly: IAG made 3.5 Billion last year. They’ll survive

@Mike Carson: Not a very productive day in work Mike. You’re worth that 3.5% increase…… Or 18% pay cut relative to inflation!

@another one? what’s going on is the semi state sec: That’s great that they made such a good profit and continue in business. Without profit making companies we would have to depend on the state for our existence. Imagine, or is it possible to imagine how bad our lives would be with no incentive to make any progress, just do as little as possible each working day.

@Jim Connolly: Ah yes I agree but there’s profit and excessive profit…. then there also keeping terms down/reducing the value of staff’s pay to make the excessive profit! The pilots are the ones doing the important job after all!…. Staff should be seen as an asset not an expense to cut!!!!….. They already operate a schedule without enough staff to cover it hence all the cancellations because pilots don’t want to do the overtime….. Poor management again leaving themselves exposed to work to rule action. They’ve probably already lost more revenue than the pay increases would have costed, just to play hardball and keep the pay down and profit margin up at the expense of the customer. Zero flucks given by management! I’m sure the pilots can wait it out more than management!

@jak: People the simple reason people vote for the same parties every time is because there has never been a genuine alternative. No other party has ever put forward enough candidates in a GE to govern. Same over the water in the UK.

@Brian: yep, plenty to disagree with, but I can’t be arsed. And btw, pots and kettles spring to mind :-)