Structural reforms will pay-off in the long-term. Many Unions don’t realize that.

Do you honestly believe that what is happening to the Garda force right now is a part of a measured structural reform? You must be joking. Closing stations, encouraging retirements, incentivising long term career breaks, no recruitment, cutting Garda wages. These policies are not even related to structural reform. That nonsense type of spin is typical of this government. Please don’t try and insult our intelligence with that sort if comment.

I don’t work support this government. I am a social democrat.

I don’t:

*Support this gov’t.
*Work for this gov’t.

Fair enough. But the current government would like the public to believe that the continued erosion of an adequate Garda service to the public is part of a structural reform, when there has in fact been no reform other than a change of Garda roster. There is no master plan here. They cannot reduce the Garda budget quick enough as far as they are concerned and this is their overriding concern, not the safety of the country’s citizens. I cannot believe that Shatter and the current Garda commissioner have the absolute gall to say that the service to the public will not be affected by dwindling Garda numbers. It is an absolute lie.

Well, the alternative is layoffs. Fianna Fail would probably do this, considering Labor is pro-Unions. Public sector pay cuts are inevitable.

Of course shatter is disconnected from the real life, he’s a politician, none of them live in the real world!

@Paul – Some are but unfortunately they are not running the country just yet.

Labour pro unions? Are your having a laugh?

Reggie baby, you lost me at labour supporting unions.

Where have you been? Labour are a right wing party now.

HARD RIGHT!

A to the Bayo

From what I’m guessing, Labor are widely seen as holding back reforms (from the centrist perspective). Most people accept that public sector wages are unsustainable. I assume it’s either:

1) Cuts

OR

2)New Taxes

“Fair” is not a one-way street.

Spending cuts would compensate the need for a property tax / water charges on “ordinary people”

The government needs to cut spending instead of property tax / water charges. Cut government spending and compensate by abolishing property tax and water charges. A low-tax low-spend economy.

Who are “ordinary people”?

Figure that out for yourself…

Spending cuts would compensate the need for a property tax / water charges.

Look to the bigger picture: no water charges, no property tax. Low-tax low-spend economy,.

They don’t care …they just keep sending bills to keep the people agitated and fearful….. in my opinion it’s just a delay tactic to cover-up tha theft of our oil and gas …to hell with the locals ….. Ray Burke for President !

True

Do you think that will stop even if they get all these cuts!!…… You truly are a muppet if you believe it those water charges ,property taxes are here to stay and they will increase every budget until we’re all left in the stone age .

No they won’t property tax water etc will still occur whether or not public servants take a cut don’t be delusional

I agree with you completely ….but there are two issues with the system as i see it !
Every time they catch a criminal and bring them before the court they have to brace themselves for the chance (a good one ) that said “suspect” is going to give them the fingers after a technicality or a suspended (100th) sentence ! ..the burden of proof and technicalities are making a mockery of the gardai and have to have a serious effect on their motivation …a man can only bang his head against the wall for so long !
The reports that 50,000 people have had driving offences squashed suggests that there is one law for the “connected ” and one for those who are “foolish” enough to respect the law and “take their medicene” ……
I think it’s a ridiculous situation where a criminal is caught red-handed and they have the exact same rights as their victims …… after the crime ! How many times have we seen the book of evidence torn to shreds because a guard has put the wrong date down …… oh the date was wrong …. we have a technicality …….. but we have a video of the criminal shooting the victim, we have a D.N.A. test that proves the criminal was at the scene , we have a zillion witnesses …………….. and the judge says the 14th was a friday not a saturday case dismissed !….
not the guards fault …. but all their work fired out the window and a criminal walks free and goes home and tells all that will hear them that the law is a joke and thus encourage more impressionable people to extend the crime wave !

The “dole” is €188 per week.

A Garda earns approx ~ €500 per week

please tell me your joking… 500 really do u want a picture of my pay slip it reads 265

What do you earn, put your cards on the table…

How many hours for 265????

Yeah sure it does, pull the other one it has bells on it. And i do think the garda are right in what they are doing.
So start looking after the people who pay you, not your bosses who cutting your pay. Stop antagonising peaceful protesters. Support them. Its for your benefit too

@keith. How do you explain that you get €265 a week. Any chance that’s because of all the bills or direct debits or deductions you chose to sign up for? If you can’t manage with the wages you earn you should’ve worked hard for a better paying job.

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml | doesn’t add up to me

I certainly don’t

I think it’s “elitist thinking”…….. they have a sense of entitlement ….if you think about it they both get money for talking and waving their hands a lot ….like a magician on barbituates ! ….There was a guy in germany who was mad into the occult who had a similar style of rhetoric “do as i say not as I do ”
Very dangerous people ….and they are not confined to those two classes you have mentioned either!
Let them eat cake and if there no cake throw a bit of horse in a burger and put it in a box that they trust ! …sure what do the ordinary people know and what are they going to do about it !

Perhaps if you look at the civic guard mutiny of 1922, admittedly that was significantly more serious but the attitude towards this minister is unprecedented (rightly so), he is drawing similarities To previous minor disputes with D. Ahern and M Mc Dowell in an attempt to dilute the seriousness of the situation .

The Civic Guard mutiny of 1922, which lead to Commissioner Michael Staines being replaced by Eoin O’Duffy, the first commissioner of the Garda Siochana…who, ironically was himself removed for encouraging a coup e’tat by what would become Fine Gael.

Fianna Fail would probably do the same, considering the dire state of public finances.

im sorry for the gang/gardai writers herein that think they have power beyond that of people power, the commissioner, the minister and their job as in guardians of the peace……….If you cant take the heat in the kitchen get out ,theres lots of young men and women looking for a job. The country is broke. You had at hand the right to investigate what was going on but chose to go with greed over justice just look at how long it taking to investigate the bankers. I honour the good gardai that do their duty without fear ,favour ,malice,or ill will, may GOD bless them

Ah for God’s sake Harry. Enough is enough surely. I certainly do not mean any insult to you but your posts on Garda matters here are just plain bizarre and meandering at this stage. Are you as vocal concerning other matters and articles on The Journal?

@harry – calm down, dear.

Every village has to have one :) welcome harry

I’m sympathetic, and support the Gardai on this.

That said, many guards are sadly disconnected from reality. They don’t understand that they have a relatively high paid job and a secure pension, which many others in our society sadly do not have. We all know their job is a tough one but bringing that up in this context is just an attempt to pluck at the heart strings. Many others have tough jobs too. There was a garda sargeant quoted in the independent this week saying he needs (QUOTE): 24k a year for private schools for his children, and 30k for his mortgage.

Explanation please.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/frontline-workers-fear-10pc-cuts-will-sink-them-29066724.html

I don’t think Gardai are disconnected from reality. They see the erosion of pay for hours worked outside the norms as difficult to take. All these cuts are going to hit them hard. Why? Because it appears the cuts are targeted on unsocial hours. 26 Sundays and 39 Saturdays per year is pretty substantial for nothing extra if Cuts happen as proposed. I can see the argument in overall perspective. However I can see many Gardai opting not to work Saturdays and Sundays going forward.

I agree the targeting of unsocial hours seems stupid. The tactics for delivering savings seem pretty idiotic on a human level. Why would anyone work these hours for no pay or low pay?

But no comments on the points above. Ok, well I will draw my conclusion.

*AGSI* ,,sorry lads

Pawns! !!. I mean they have good intentions but that got totally abused but to new to see it. Work for free really but at some time they can’t be out on their own in case something happens.

Some do it and keep doing it as they eventually want to join the full time force but they are really just being used to make it look like there are more guards then there actually is.

Damien. You’re completely deluded. Everyone knows that a big portion of Guards are dodgy. Hey just look at what they did to Clare Daly for example. What happened to the penalty points investigation? Not a word about it. Sorry, but a lot of these guys think they’re outside the laws that they’re supposed to enforce upon the rest of us. I’ve had the misfortune to seek their assistance three times in my life, and was on each occasion completely amazed by there total lack of interest and downright arrogance. In fairness I have heard stories to the contrary, but they’d be quite rare.

@ Damien, allocating 4 Guards to arrest and bring to prison a woman who failed to pay a minor fine, failing to execute warrants for arrest of violent criminals, assault of suspects, investment of businesses and commercial interests to the detriment of their primary duty, favouritism in expunging penalty points, rudeness to members of the public , excessive aggressiveness and violence in response to civil protests, allocating substantial resources to minor offences , inefficiency, unauthorised access to Pulse, selling information to the media and abuse of power.

An Garda Siochana have security of employment, excellent advancement prospects, excellent early retirement opportunity, excellent pension, excellent employment prospects following early retirement options. Look at the Morris Tribunal Reports, Abbeylara etc, etc.

What a lot of bullcrap :)

First you give out about guards enforcing COURT orders. So if a woman gets fined for drugs and does not pay she should not go to jail? Besides if you have issue with justice system its the courts not your police that enforce it.

Then you complain about guards not arresting people on warrants.

Lies. Warrants are executed. I’ve not seen 3 guards taking woman but two is the norm. Otherwise you would have journal reporting on women claiming she was sexually assaulted by garda. So ya know everything needs to be verified :)

But seriously all you say is biased and completely inaccurate. Its alright not toknow everything sure who does. But ya know when you’re completely ignorant of how things actually work you should not comment because….. well because just makes you look silly :)

Best to keep mouth closed

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

@ YouDon’tKnowMe, sadly the late Michael Creighton was murdered in Mullingar by a a violent young criminal for whom an arrest warrant was persistently not executed despite many people in Mullingar complaining about the thug being out and about in Mullingar. There has been a significant problem with persons guilty of offences against the person not being arrested.

I think that the Guards are often guilty of overkill. Older women who have not paid their television licences should not be an arrest priority. The problem is discriminatory enforcement.

I appreciate that criticism of an Garda Siochana is highly provocative and even extremely dangerous to the person expressing the criticism. I can see that reality from your response.

I see that you did not address the substance of my criticism. For example, if you park the invective for a moment, do you accept or reject the conclusions of the Morris Tribunal or that poor man in Donegal, the accountant and nightclub owner who was falsely set up and wrongly convicted by false evidence of an Garda Siochana. An Garda Siochana is seriously dysfunctional and inefficient. I appreciate this is a minority view.

I remember the force denying that there was any evidence of a sexual trafficking problem in Ireland when it was a massive problem.

No institution, force or authority is perfect. The Courts and the legal system are defective in many respects and need reform. An Garda Siochana’s loss of files on child sexual abuse by clerics was a scandal, the collusion of an Garda in apprehending escapees from the Magdalene Laundries even though they were falsely imprisooned was wrong.

The interesting thing is that the many honest and conscientious members of an Garda Siochana, likely the majority, accept that there is a significant problem in the force. It is the absolute deniers who worry me. It causes me to wonder why they are so strident in their denials. It is the deniers who seek to conceal. Why?

No body or group in Ireland deserves respect or devotion. A hard eye is required on all institutions and power groups in Ireland.

As for the threaten to withdraw services I am struck by the irony that the enforcers of the law propose to break the law.

if i may peter…

Warrants are funny things sure person might be living in such a spot but warrant might go to old address and have to be forwarded back through the garda lines of communication. Wit the amount of paper involved it can take weeks to be honest and sure we have systems to tell us there is warrant but they are not always accurate, being that the warrant may have been dealt with and not written off on system so thats why its always best practice when not sure to wait for the actual warrent to turn up or you could arrest the man and find out its already been dealt with and tax payer has to pay for wrongful arrest.

Guards dont imprison little old ladies. judges do that. If guards receive a warrant over a fine the person is given every chance to pay and if they refuse too sure the court order has to be complied with and they will be taken away best day that suits them.

your going way off topic with donegal but i’ll address it anyway. What was result?? those bad eggs ended up in jail. Your completely wrong with guards selling information from our systems a scurrilous remark and unfounded. you will of course have a bad egg that would but EVERYTHING on our system is recorded if someone is stupid enough to do that it will be tracked back within moments. Also you claim about guards just checking things for the hell of it guards must be able to access information on everybody but when we do we must enter reasons for doing so. So i can tell you the information on system is safe.

your wrong on the priority of warrants also. Bench warrants are the highest. As for lost files. Hmmm, yeah that could be done better. a year in a garda district would more then fill your living room with paper its old system just stored hardcopy and sure things would get lost. We all see the likes of FBI have massive storage warehouses and yeah thats whats not done here but should be. No files would just go missing on purpose from storeage and good reason why is you would be doing amazingly well to find the damn things :)

Magdalene Laundries well thats just indictment of irish society. guards back then were tasked with returning the girls if there was court order saying they had to be there so really i guess the blame should fall on the Dept of justice and courts for sending these girls there.

oh by the way not going to go into abbeylara much only to say that independent review by the FBI was critical the guards for not shooting sooner. but people can make up own minds on that one. to me its black and white no grey really.

Abuse of power is mostly used by those we arrest and its pile of poo really. there is no abuse of power guards think very clearly before any action. sure if someone is mouthy to a guard the will be surprised that the guard can give excellent replies.

Like i said of course you will get bad eggs same with everything but if we know our own are bad we go after them twice as hard. I dont think some (most people do) see how lucky they are having the Garda police force. Id go as far to say its the best force in the world, unarmed and made of the people for the people not a military style force like every other in the world and probably the most friendly. Shame those who administer such a great force seek to destroy it.

anyway your entitled to your views of course :) but i strongly disagree

Too much time on your hands Stewie???

apparently so

Ah penalty points not gardai rank and file get your facts straight only super up can do that and this proposal doesnt affect their pay

No advancement prospects at all unless willing to tow line get a grip I seem to remember a time when people ie the educated populace laughed at those who joined during the ‘celtic tiger’ now gardai should be grateful why didn’t everyone who is commenting here join then?

joe your right with that one. a common insult from toerags working on building sites was that i earn way more then you in good times. Good times were average for guards, sure i earned more then but i was out each day on any crime operations. they paid guards overtime to put on extra operations and from management point of view it was always money well spent and got results.

its so very different now. one big reason crime has not gone nuts is we have exported alot of our young so not as many to cause hassle on a weekend. i hope the minister sees the folly of his ways i really dont want to do protests if they can be avoided but he has backed the force into corner.

In a way Im glad this is happening. If enough of us grow a pair then with the Gardai on our side we can throw this regime out into the streets.

Wishful thinking, but more likely if the law enforcement are on our side.

Yes, I know how the above reads…

Then Andy you have a great legal case. Youre way under the minimum wage!!!

cop on and stop lying, after 5 years, you are earning e550 net per week, factor in your monthly big cheque and all your voluntary deductions, credit union, medical insurance etc…any guard who claims to earn less than e500 net per week is either lying or just unable to perform simple arithmetic

Reckon its after voluntary deductions have also come out if OP is being honest. Having said that, if after all my insurance etc was taken at base and I was risking my life, at any stage to the detriment of my family, even for one day a year, anything below €15 an hour would be an insult. Fair play to the coppers. They won’t get another chance in their generation to stand up for their pay.

Good man dan, living the dream eh. Shame there isn’t more heroes like you out there. Sure you’d probably work for nothing.

Actually it’s none of your business are private sector workers constantly asked what they are earning. I have a house one mortgage bills associated with that and we as a family re struggling if the proposes cuts are implemented I will consider leaving, however it’s not in my nature not to work its not how I was brought up but please I’m sick of listening to crap why isn’t everyone supporting each other against the boys club of a country that we find ourselves in? I hate that if I arrest someone he she will get bail commit more crime maybe get a sentence of let’s say three years out in ten months do u think that helps morale. Crime is a problem and having a minister that undermines its significance is a big problem and doesn’t want to tackle it but cut cut cut

You don’t work 60 hours a week. You work 60 hours in every ten day period. You work on average just over 42 hours a week. Will you get off this thing talking rubbish and making an eejit of yourself.

It’s 6 ten hour shifts before a day off. That’s 60 hours ‘on’ in a working week. How many do you do before your day off. Muppet.

@ Alan Harte. Research your facts there pal. Gardai work six consecutive ten hour days followed by four days off. 42 hours a week? Tis you who is making the eejit out of yourself.

How many days are in a week? Ten? No. Average out the amount of hours worked per week over a year if you can and then tell me who’s an eejit.

Just using your own figures, that is 60 hours over 14 days. Which you have to admit looks pretty good. Did you post the wrong figures?

Come on guys, you need to stop posting stupid stuff like this and then complaining. It makes *you* all look like eejits.

@rodrigo
Because no one does the same job as a garda on a daily basis, you are a garda 24hrs a day 7 days a week. You’re life can be at risk in work and your family and property can be in danger when you’re at home. No other job is like it, your task is to deliver justice to criminals, what a stupid comment

Aarum. You make it sound like our guards have no choice. If they don’t like the pay and conditions, why don’t they leave? My point is that why do they deserve to be untouched by austerity? All we hear from government is about everyone paying their fair share.

Actually, you couldn’t be more wrong. Your job is to protect the peace, not to deliver justice. There’s a crucial distinction there, and many Gardai, especially young members, don’t seem to get that. Too often Gardai act as judge, jury and executioner when dealing with members of the public.

Abuse of power is a common side-effect of a big government.

Good lad brian. Be good to guard they will be good to you or try policing in dublin for a night you might learn a thing or two. As it stands you would be eaten alive

What a load of rubbish this bleating about the unbearably tough job guards have to put up with. No one was conscripted into the Garda Siochana. Why sign up if it’s so horrendous?

conditions were far better before alan thats why

Eaten alive?! Lol!!

Agree

Harry change the record it’s growing tiresome

Harry looks like a deluded old man with a chip on his shoulder. A Garda put you in your place for being senile or ignorant? Both?

That’s not how you win support for your cause Murphy.

Your opinion matters as much to me as the mouse problem in Peru. Plus ‘murphy’ was christened and doesn’t hide behind a stupid hidden name with to much time on his hands