TheJournal.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more »
Dublin: 10 °C Monday 20 May, 2013

Savita scandal: Reilly urges TDs not to prejudge results of inquiries

James Reilly says TDs’ comments could prejudge the findings of two investigations into the death of Savita Halappanavar, who died after being refused a termination procedure.

THE MINISTER FOR HEALTH, James Reilly, has urged TDs to show caution and not to prejudge the findings of two investigations into the death of an Indian woman who died after being refused a termination procedure at a hospital in Galway last month.

Speaking in a Dáil debate on the death of Savita Halappanavar last month, which first came to light this morning, Reilly said TDs and governments had “many responsibilities, and one of them is not to prejudge a situation”.

“I am privy to certain facts but I’m not privileged to share them. And that is why I ask for time for an independent report on this to be done, so that we get the truth of what happened,” Reilly said.

Savita’s death had been raised after seven TDs – Patrick Nulty, Mick Wallace, Clare Daly, Joan Collins, Richard Boyd Barrett, Joe Higgins and Catherine Murphy - raised the issue as a Topical Issue in the Dáil, demanding a government commitment to legislate for abortion under the terms permitted by the Supreme Court ruling in the X Case.

“One of the Deputies across refers to the ‘he’ as the doctor and clinician involved. Is that Deputy sure it was a ‘he’, or was it a ‘she’?”

‘Catholic ethos’

Reilly said the TDs had raised questions about the possibility of “a Catholic ethos that is preventing people, or inhibiting people, from carrying out proper medical treatment as defined by the Medical Council”.

The minister said he had “no evidence of that”, but did not wish to preclude the findings of the reports being compiled by either the HSE or University College Hospital in Galway, nor the report of a coroner which will be completed in due course.

As I’ve said, it’s a terrible tragedy for the family, but for the staff involved as well, this is an emotional time for them.

They’re entitled to due process. Some of the comments here would seek to deny them that, and I thin that’s unfair.

The minister commented, in his capacity as a GP, that it was often the case that where a miscarriage was inevitable, “the view of the medical expert is that to allow that to occur naturally is the safest option. There will come a point, and a time, where that is not the safest option and where intervention must take place.”

He stressed, however, that this was merely “a general comment” and did not relate to Halappanavar’s specific case.

The minister also read into the Dáil record the Medical Council’s professional guidelines for registered professional medical practitioners, which outline that, in some cases, “therapeutic intervention (including termination of a pregnancy) is required at a stage when, due to extreme immaturity of the baby, there may be little or no hope of the baby surviving.

“In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.”

Savita could ‘most likely still be alive’ – Wallace

Earlier, Mick Wallace had said that Halappanavar would “most likely be still alive” if she had chosen to live in 44 of the 47 other European states where an abortion procedure would have been available to her – but that she had died because she had happened to live in Ireland.

“The failure to pass the Bill that we introduced last April to legislate for the X Case is damning,” Wallace said. “Would Savita be alive if we had done so?”

He later added that the provisions of the Medical Council’s guidelines did not adequately protect doctors from the legal provisions of the Offences against the Person Act 1861, which remains in effect in Ireland, and which provides for life imprisonment for using drugs or instruments to procure an abortion, or to supply or procure such “poison or instruments”.

Daly said it appeared that “this beautiful woman is dead [...] as a result of political cowardice” to legislate for abortion under the terms of the Supreme Court’s ruling in the X Case, where it was found that the Constitution permits abortion in circumstances where the life of the mother is at risk.

Boyd Barrett claimed that “tragic and terrible circumstances have caught up with us and forced us to recognise that abysmal failure by government” to introduce such legislation.

Nulty sought a commitment “to Irish women, who are looking on with shock and absolute disdain at this Oireachtas” to provide for “protection of women throughout the duration of their pregnancy” and to ensure all necessary procedures were available to them as they were needed.

“You will be judged by how you act on this issue,” Nulty told the minister. “Whether you stand by, and fail to deal with this issue, or whether you have the courage to act on it.”

“If our bill had been presented, and accepted by this government, we could be moving to the state where this would not happen – where the doctors in that hospital would have been protected by legislation to be able to assist that woman in relation to her situation,” Joan Collins added.

Joe Higgins said reports of Savita’s treatment begged the question of whether a Catholic ethos existed in UCHG such that the appropriate guidelines and procedures were not followed in her case.

“What we can do is make sure that no other woman suffers the same fate,” concluded Catherine Murphy.

Protests: Dublin and London protests following the death of Savita Halappanavar

Reaction: Savita death ‘not caused by Ireland’s ban on abortion’ – Youth Defence

Dáil: Expert group report’s completed as FF calls for independent inquiry

Read next:

Comments (67 Comments)

  • If the report finds that a lack of legislation is the cause of that man returning home without a child and a wife, then their deaths are on the hands of Reilly and all of his predecessors. Sick that it is nearly 2013 and yet a woman can be allowed to die in such horrific conditions. A country shamed.

    Reply
  • It’s times like these that I begin to wonder is the savage eye more of a documentary than a comedy show. Damn shame on this country.

    Reply
  • neo1 14/11/12 #

    Insane that in this day and age a woman can be left to die while in a hospital whoever is responsible should be done for murder shame on the doctor who made that judgement my she and the baby rest in peace

    Reply
    • neo1, totally agree, people who follow the letter of the law like this are educated arseholes with no brains to think about what needs to be done as opposed to what should be done. Procedure, protocol and the book of rules are not the problem it’s the idiots that adhere to them so rigirously that lives are lost as a result.

      Reply
    • Had docs involved actually done that they would’ve been struck off. These people give their life to their profession, would you perhaps like to pay their bills, their mortgages…..

      Reply
    • According to the Catholic Ireland that Savita was reminded of, she won’t be resting in peace. In fact, according to the Catholics she’ll be in the fiery pits of hell being tormented and tortured for eternity, while her baby is in heaven alone.

      Reply
    • ROBERTO 14/11/12 #

      The doctor would be struck off if they did in fact terminate the preganancy.

      Reply
    • If you read the article, above, the Medical Council guidelines say ““In these exceptional circumstances, it may be necessary to intervene to terminate the pregnancy to protect the life of the mother, while making every effort to preserve the life of the baby.” …so if the doctor did terminate the pregnancy he would have actually been *following* regulations….

      Reply
  • A Catholic Country, The life of the Mother should come first! Kick the Church out, along with their looney followers!

    Reply
  • Why can’t people use their own discretion, if I was this doctor and i thought an abortion would save her life, i don’t care what the law says, in any event the law is only a grey are on this after the x case, seems to be more about one doctors self preservation and career than doing what was required.

    Reply
    • I think the Minister’s request that we await the findings of the two enquiries into this sad death is the correct approach. Let’s remember that the women was undergoing a natural abortion in the true meaning of the word and the consequences of her own death are a matter for due diligence by qualified Medical Practitioners rather than digital warriors who have absolutely no fact available to them.
      The remarks by Deputy Wallace on the floor of the House today are a disgrace and together with some of his extreme Dail friends they have seriously maligned the Professional standard of the Nurses and Doctors that treated this unfortunate woman. Their typical scurrilous behavior and accusation bears a remarkable resemblance to the young people who bully others literally to death in our Society.
      Why don’t we wait for those with knowledge of the facts to advise us as to what happened without destroying people in our thirst to get a cheap journalistic soundbitea.

      Reply
    • If you were the doctor in question and had acted as you suggest she/he should’ve, the doctor would’ve saved the life of the mother but gotten struck off the medical register as a result.

      Reply
    • deputy wallace trying to exploit a dead woman and child to take heat off himself, what a lowlife, nothing to do with the corrupt shitehawk, if the doctor had acted in good faith he would not have been “struck off the register” he would have done nothing wrong legally if he had carried out the abortion if the mothers life was in danger. This is medical negligence hedging its bets on bringing this country in to disrepute in case he turned out to be wrong as he did. Dont forget UCHG recently sacked a doctor for sexual impropriety and misconduct.

      Reply
    • Garry I am responding to the facts, are you saying the media are lieing about what happened?

      Reply
    • The HSE are hardly going to blame one of their own doctors, but he is to blame, the woman asked for a termination, they had identified that she was miscarrying, her life was in danger but the doctor did not act because he did not want to jeopardize his career, he is trying to blame the country and law for his inaction.

      Reply
    • The doctor was following medical procedure here, unfortunately his hands were tied as a result of our legalisation. Horrible thing to have happened but only “the man above” knows if she would have survived.

      Reply
    • It was this country’s legislation that he made the call he made. It’s not as clear cut as “if I were a doctor I would have done it”. If he did that doctor would have nothing as he would be struck off due to our countries laws.

      Reply
  • I’m after watching a representative from the Institute of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists on RTE 6-1 definitively saying the legal right is there to terminate where the Mothers life is definitely in danger and there is little or no hope for the child. Two questions: 1. Why so is this lady dead and 2. Why are people on here citing the law itself as the cause of death? It seems the law had this eventuality covered???

    Reply
  • DO THE RIGHT THING you cowardly bunch of TDs.

    Reply
    • If the law is already in place, what exactly could the Oireachtas have done to prevent what happened?

      Reply
    • What is the right thing, the law already allows doctors to carry out whatever treatment is necessary to save the mothers life! There is a bit of a grey area and the gov should legislate for Abc to provide clarity and ensure that all doctors know exactly where they stand on this! They do not have to legislate for x! We would lose far more lives if they do!! This is a very sad case but it appears the doctor may not have known where he/ she stood. Either way I believe that it’s appropriate to wait for the report to determine why the dr involved did not provide savita with the medical care thy should have!

      Reply
    • The problem is that doctors don’t know what “immediate risk” means. 20% likely she’ll die? 40%? Everyone agrees when it’s 90%, but when she was first admitted, it probably looked like a lot lower.

      There is no right to terminate an unviable foetus, so until it looked like a desperate emergency situation, doctors are hesitant.

      Reply
    • @ Nick, in that case the gov should legislate for Abc an ensure that doctors can get a 2nd opinion on when such action is needed and that there is full clarity on when an abortion can take place. I simply don’t believe that legislating to take more lives is the answer! Questions have to be asked why this doctor didn’t take the appropriate action! Ireland has consistently scored as one of the top countries for pregnant woman, it is so sad that such a tragedy has occurred but I am sad that ppl are using this to push their own agendas to take more lives! This is not and should not be about religion, it should be about the protection of life to the born and unborn! Rip Savita, very sad!

      Reply
    • The law is not already in place. Facts required.

      Reply
  • RTE did not mention the comment made at the time about the catholic ethos. Very poor reporting. Ireland and RTE still answerable to the bishops. SHAME ON THEM

    Reply
  • Thank you Francis. It’s a desperately tragic event. Thoughts and prayers to the family of this poor woman and child. I imagine that there are medical staff involved in this case suffering tonight too. I don’t think you can leave an event like this at work. Let the investigation take its course. RIP, both of you.

    Reply
  • The Minister for poor health should prioritize his sorry government into producing a bill which should separate church from politics. Then again dear leader has said repeatedly that he’s not going to pass a law on abortion under his watch! Back to the fifties!

    Reply
  • Has it been confirmed that the cause of death was linked to her not having an abortion?

    Seems we are assuming she was denied an abortion based on medicolegal grounds when it was possible that her treating team may have based their decision on the clinical situation, say hold of on the abortion as she might respond to treatment, she might be too physically compromised to a undergo surgery… Just don’t know…

    Reply
    • She presented miscarrying, she was still miscarrying two days later, a dilated cervix in those circumstances is basically an open wound hence septicaemia. These are known facts and are all over the media today.

      Reply
  • Francis Mr Reilly was on the one o clock news today and said that all he new about this was what he read in the paper…the minister for health?

    Reply
  • As much as I hate to agree with Reilly, there are a lot of facts missing that we should be clear about before making demands, and potentially addressing the wrong problem. I’m not a doctor, so cannot say either way if a termination would have saved Savita’s life. For argument’s sake, IF the doctor’s could not foresee her life being under threat, how is it any less than barbaric that she was left in agony for so long? At a minimum her health was being affected.

    I just hope there is not knee jerk legislation that is over descriptive of ‘acceptable circumstances’ that leads to more death or trauma because legisltation could not foresee enough scenarios or the doctor didn’t study law and was unsure of legal repercussions!

    Thoughts are with Savita’s husband and family – and thank you for having the courage to be so public about this to provide hope this might get prevented in future.

    Reply
  • Wait till the facts come out and stop acting like a lynch mob !

    Reply
    • agree Francis like listening to a dail debate blame this party blame him/everybody so sorry for mother and child and dad..hard believe this could happen in Ireland.

      Reply
    • Kerry
      A majority of views here comment on this recorded and unfortunate death as if it occurred due to either mistreatment or no treatment and in breach of Professional guidelines or protocols. Additionally we can all be certain that these opinions are made in the complete absence of any facts. Then to make the situation risible when I warn of legal action being taken against the “accusers” you rubbish my views or warnings. What an utterly ignorant position to adopt.

      Reply
    • Will the HSE produce facts about one of its own doctors that will make them liable for millions?

      Reply
    • You Garry have accused everybody on this thread of being “digital warriors” that is an ignorant position to adopt.

      Reply
    • Garry I’d take you a bit more seriously (slightly) if you managed to reply in the same thread to my original comment.

      Reply
  • #RIPSavita: Dithering politicians , its a crime against women . The life of the mother must come first .Another tragedy that should never have happened . The world’s gaze is upon this country and its one of disbelief .

    Reply
  • The poor lady who died, did so on the 28th October, over too weeks ago.

    Meanwhile anti austerity protests were organised across Europe today in Spain, Italy, Portugal and Greece. The very day our media decided to drop an abortion bomb on the public psyche.

    We were played perfectly today in a game of media mastery.

    And I do remember a political commentator stating before that “Fianna Gael have always understood the power of the media more so than any other Irish political party”

    Reply
  • terrible tragedy

    Reply
  • Ireland = a third world country when it comes to abortion..
    Dont believe me? Have a look at the map here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion

    Unreal

    Reply
  • Sick of hearing soundbites from Mick Wallace. The man is a tax fraud and got away with it due to being a TD, while his remarkably more honest private sector counterpart was jailed for 6 years.

    He is a stain in the Dail and nothing more.

    Reply
  • Is reilly trying to bully people into not talking about this poor lady . Does he think people are going to shut up because he the incompetent p***k that he is says it could prejudice the investigations… The woman is DEAD . How more prejudiced can you get . Her husband is widowed and the woman knew she was dying . She told them to take it . It was unviable. This was a nightmare scenario. But now we are having more talk more investigations more lipservice.

    Reply
    • Scoring political points on this. Truly disgraceful. I mean really, really low.

      Reply
    • Eileen
      You have just committed the most aggressive and deliberate slander I have ever witnessed and you have absolutely no fact available to you on which you base your rancid and bile laced accusations against the Minister for Health and a Team of Health Care Specialists at a State owned Hospital in Galway. Woman, what is wrong with your common sense or judgement that you suspended both for a cheap but grandiose claim on these electronic pages . Would you have done the same on RTE or in the Irish Times where people would have a bit more time to ponder on your monumental suggestion that Doctors and Nurses deliberately and in breach of their Prefessional ethics stood by and allowed this poor woman to die.
      May the retribution of the Civil Courts take every penny from you that you own.

      Reply
    • Garry and Vincent,
      I think the public outrage stems from the fact that what has been reported thus far is exactly as you have indicated.
      My reading is that the country is appalled by the possibility that “Doctors and Nurses deliberately and in breach of their Prefessional (sic) ethics stood by and allowed this poor woman to die”.
      I could be wrong, and await the reports…
      You have the option to report both this and Eileen Gabbetts comments. But I would remind you that no long ago the Minister took “ownership” of the HSE and the underlying issue here is being widely criticised for being ignored.
      Here, I do not agree with what Eileen has said entirely, but support wholeheartedly her right to comment on what is said in parliament. It is her sentiment that I support, and her right to express it.

      Reply
    • #Paul, I think we’re all disgusted by what happened. I think you’re right the HSE has huge questions to answer as do the medical team. To hold a Minister responsible for every decision made by every team in every hospital is unrealistic , I would suggest. Eileen ascribed motive to it- and started playing party politics. Playing politics with something like this is reprehensible. It just is. She has every right to say what she says. I’ve ever right to be disgusted by her saying it.

      Reply
    • Garry you really make me laugh “slander” get a grip man.

      Reply
    • Vincent,
      I take pleasure in being the first to give a thumbs up to your response.
      The politicisation of this issue is something to which I have objected in earlier comments I have made in other places. But the disappointing reality is that people DO see it as a political issue. Non-party political lobbyists were responsible for “breaking” this story and while people are united in their disgust and outrage, they are divided in their ideologies. I missed the “party political” element of Eileen’s comment. I do, however, entirely share your disgust in political play at this time… but regrettably the people are polarised.
      I would much prefer to see a properly considered application of existing law in this case, and so far consider that an unlawful death has occurred, based on what I have read to this time. I await official reports as we all do…

      Reply
    • stop threatening people that don’t agree with your dictator views Garry, look at the amount of people who dislike your posts, people have a right to voice their feelings on such a sensitive issue, especially in a country whose government ignores the ordinary public.

      Reply
    • #Ed- there was a great article in Politico yesterday about the US Republican Party. It suggested that the reason that they genuinely didn’t see the Obama win coming was that they insulated themselves. They watched Fox. They listened to conservative radio personalities. They read conservative papers and they had conservative friends. Simply- they came to genuinely believe everybody thought like they did because they never exposed themselves to other opinion. The first thing I thought of was the Journal and the amount of people who point to the amount of thumbs down attached to comments. As if the popularity of what you’re saying bore any relationship to the legitimacy of what you’re saying. The Journal’s contributor base is undoubtedly left wing dominated and anti-Government. If you come on here and give out about the Government, people will agree. If you defend the Government they will disagree. It offers no insight into either the validity of your point or the wider acceptance of your point at a national level. This is my long winded way of saying- who gives a flying fig how many thumbs down Garry gets?

      Reply
  • Dr OReilly should remember that in any of his investigations into this very cruel wrondoing that it was not because of the abortion issue that this woman had died. It was her right to live and she was not allowed that right.

    Reply
  • O Reilly should resign. He has been in power long enough to sort out his personal affairs with his developments and various business interests.
    He has no interest in the well wing of people’s health – just look at the children’s hospital. If a politicians daughter had died we would have something done very quickly.

    Reply

Add New Comment