And all the cannabis dealers will just decide to give up dealing cos it’s legal and get real jobs and we all live happily ever after.. They definitely won’t move their enterprises to more indiscriminate targets like protection rackets and robberies etc. at least when it’s illegal the people involved in the transactions make a choice to be involved and so must live with the consequences of their habit. They don’t call it dope for nothing.

Of course the criminal element won’t disappear, but removing cannabis from the black market would seriously weaken the organised crime gangs that are involved in it, look at how powerful the Gilligan gang became through the sale of cannabis during the 90′s, John Gilligan and his croneys used to rob factories before then, it was only when they started selling cabnnabis that they became so powerful, almost untouchable and the same is happening today, with criminals profiting handsomely from the sale of cannabis & other drugs.

And weakening the criminal gangs is just one of the many benefits that could be acheived from cannabis legalisation, a whole new legitimate industry would be develpoed, hundreds of millions would be generated in tax revenue, jobs would be created, adults wishing to it could do so without having to break the law, garda resources would be freed up, it would take pressure off our judicial system, allowing them to handle more serious issues. We might even see a drop in our overall crime levels, similar to what happened in California after they decriminlaised it – http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/28/california-marijuana-decriminalization-_n_2205997.html

Jason, the only reason you gave for why you think it should remain banned is that it forces innocent people to feel guilty about breaking the law, when in every other part of their life they are law abiding citizens. I’ve been smoking cannabis for 20 years, I have a good job, I pay my taxes & contribute to society, I abide by the laws of the land and basically lead a good life, yet I’m branded a criminal because I choose to smoke cannabis, a drug that causes less harm to both the user and to society, when compared to alcohol, which is freely available for adults to consume whenever they want. To come out with a statement like “They don’t call it dope for nothing” only highlights how ignorant you are about cannabis, you should look into the history of it and learn about why it was banned in the first place, your attitude towards it might change if you actually knew the facts.

Firstly cannabis freedom, it is called dope. You spout a simplistic solution to solving criminal problems by legalising something that you claim is relatively harmless. You obviously have an agenda in terms of legalising Cannabis because by your own admission you like it. You presume to tell me that I am ignorant about the realities of Cannabis. The difference between you and me besides you with your hippy dippy cannabis leaf avatar is that I see the realities of what that drug can do. I see on a day to day basis the problems it causes. You’re looking at your Cannabis use and your “research” that agrees with your opinions and standing on the pulpit telling everyone how legalising it will solve all problems. You’re wrong. The UK downgraded the classification of cannabis a number of years ago and have upgraded it again. The Dutch are becoming less tolerant of it. There is an opposing side of your argument where Cannabis is shown to be linked to mental health issues, developmental problems, motivation and learning problems etc. I would also never argue the case that alcohol is more dangerous than cannabis or not. If alcohol was invented today then I have no doubt it would be immediately banned. I have done plenty of research on cannabis use but on top of it I deal with the consequences of it from a non users perspective and its you that’s ignorant of the realities of cannabis if you dont see that there is a dark side to it.

Hang on a minute, I never said that legalising cannabis would solve all our problems or anything of the sort, I said that it would weaken the organised gangs involved in its trade, whilst benefiting our economy & society in a number of ways. You mention the dark side of cannabis, please explain what you mean, because when you look at the big picture you’ll notice that it’s actually the prohibition of cannabis that’s causing the most harm:

- Underage use of cannabis, it’s freely available without any restrictions, due to its prohibition.
- Only strains with unknown cannabinoid quantities/ratios are available, with criminals nearly always opting to sell the stronger strains i.e Skunk. Not to mention that criminals can contaminate their product to make it more profitable, along with making it a lot more harmful for the user.
- There’s a direct link between cannabis and harder drugs like cocaine & heroin, solely because they’re supplied by the same criminals who sell cannabis.
- People having to isolate themselves to enjoy it, because of a fear of being prosecuted, this is not a healthy mind set to have.

Calling it dope, with reference to the people using it or referring to my “hippy dippy” avatar doesn’t add anything to the debate and just because I use cannabis, that does not mean that I’m unaware of the counter arguments, cannabis is already freely available and keeping it banned isn’t going to make it magically disappear or make it any safer, legalising it would only help us control the situation and let us work towards harm reduction.

If it’s a mature & balanced debate in relation to cannabis that you’re looking for, have a look at the Marijuana Legalisation Hearing in Washington, with activists, politicians and former & current law enforcement officials speaking to the Washington State Legislature in support of and against legalisation – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhOFHovg0Og

Cannabis freedom. It will not weaken the trade as the criminals will diversify to crimes where the participants dont have a choice as to whether they want to be involved. I cant see any benefits for the economy as a large proportion of the taxes you are talking about will most likely end up being spent dealing with the increased negative consequences of the Cannabis use. Contrary to your assertion it is not harmless. It is a PSYCHOTROPIC drug. It is generally used by inhaling SMOKE to ones lungs. It lasts in the body for a very extensive period of time and is difficult to detect quickly (unlike alcohol).
I am not going to get into a lengthy debate with you because you have your opinion and admit that you have used it for 20 years. I have never used it but i deal with the consequences of its use professionally on a day to day basis from a perspective. The effects relate to mental issues, social issues family issues and other issues i mentioned in a previous comment. In my opinion, with cannabis, legal or not those effects will still remain a problem and indeed probably more so due to wider availability and more social acceptance. Much like alcohol.

Are you implying that the extra strong Cannabis would not be sold if it was legal? If so then is that not still a form of prohibition and offering a market for the criminals to fill?

I also believe that you are incorrect with your assessment with regards to the link between Cannabis and harder drugs (ie. there is a direct link between cannabis and harder drugs SOLELY due to the same gangs selling them). It is not the case that the same people are supplying Cannabis and the harder drugs at every level. They are very different drugs to deal with at every level. I agree with your point in a different way in that it is a fact that every heroin user probably started their illegal drug use by using cannabis. This is one of the mantras used when arguing that Cannabis is a gateway drug. It does not hold that every Cannabis user goes on to use heroin. I purposely didnt bring up the “gateway drug” argument.

I disagree with you fundamentally and no statistics that you can throw at me will change my mind for two reasons. 1. I have seen plenty of studies that disagree with the studies that tell us how harmless it is. 2. as ive said i see and deal with the consequences of peoples use (and it is mostly young people and getting younger which legalising will not prevent access). I am not intending offence to anyone but it is a fact that the drug is referred to as “Dope” due to its effects. With regards to your avatar, I do find it quite hippie dippy but i certainly didnt dismiss you as ignorant because you have a different point of view as you did with me.

C’mon Jason, do you really believe that there wouldn’t be a negative effect on the profits made by the criminal gangs behind the sale of cannabis, if it was removed from the black market? I’m not denying that they wouldn’t continue committing other crimes, but the sale of cannabis is worth hundreds of millions in Ireland alone, as mentioned previously you only have to look at how powerful the Gilligan gang got during the 90′s to see how profitable it is for the criminals involved.

You state that you can’t see the economic benefits, because you believe that the same funds will be required to deal with the negative consequences associated with cannabis, but I think you’re exaggerating here a little, maybe not on purpose, seeing that your position brings you face to face with the people who do develop problems and not with the thousands of people who use it without ever having an issue with it. It’s too easy to look at the damaging effects of alcohol and automatically presume that the same would apply to cannabis if it was legalised, but this is not true. According to a recent published review in the Journal of Psychopharmacology, “A direct comparison of alcohol and cannabis showed that alcohol was considered to be more than twice as harmful as cannabis to users, and five times more harmful as cannabis to others (society) – http://www.alternet.org/story/154782/health_and_societal_costs_of_marijuana_vs._alcohol_and_tobacco%3A_prohibitionists’_concerns_answered_and_refuted

I never claimed that cannabis was harmless, instead I used the term “relatively harmless”, which it is and just because you use capital letters to spell PSYCHOTROPIC, that does not make it any more dangerous than it already is. Nearly all drugs are psychotropic, including alcohol which is legal for adults to consume. I also never said that the stronger strains of cannabis wouldn’t be sold if it was made legal, these strains would still be available, but they wouldn’t be the ‘only’ option, so consumers could opt for less potent strains. And just because cannabis isn’t totally harmless, that doesn’t mean it should be banned and the people who chosse to consume it should be punished as criminals, foods that contain sugar can be dangerous if they’re abused, but we don’t rush out to ban them and label all sugar eaters as criminals.

I stand corrected on saying that the link between cannabis & harder drugs is “solely” down to them being supplied by the same dealers, but you cannot deny that it’s still a very strong contributing factor; I recently bought some cannabis from a guy I don’t usually get it from and when picking it up he was quick to tell me that he also had e’s & coke there if I was interested (I wasn’t).

Anyway Jason, I think the only thing we fully agree on here is that we’re both looking at this issue from completely different perspectives, I respect your opinions even though I don’t agree them, at least we debated the issue a bit, which is more than our government seem to be willing to do.

Also, no offence taken with regards to using the term dope or hippy dippy :)

Well said Jason. Good to hear a voice of reason without an agenda behind it. There’s a reason it’s called ‘dope’!

Street value is accurate when the substance is broken down to 1gram amounts. The only fault with the street value is that much like legitimate bulk purchases the dealers offer discounted prices for larger quantities bought. If the value was quoted as potential street value it’s very accurate. For example most small street deals are 3grams also known as an 1/8 . They are sold for €50 as 50bags. The €10 bulk discount is applied to the real cost of €20/gram. Can’t see how you think it’s misleading when that is the potential value