When you drop your older kids to primary they have it in the school
And the state subsidises the cost

Involving the schools is a very good idea…if they weren’t already short on facilities etc but if the infrastructure was available it would be ideal! Fair system for subsidising would have to be developed!

Most countries make it tax deductible. That way it’s affordable if you work, but not otherwise.

employers could be encouraged to provide day care, at least on an emergency basis.

It’s also an interesting thing to know in the context of child benefit. I would imagine there are plenty of families who are able to feed and buy school supplies for their children but find the payment quite helpful with regards to childcare.

I don’t really know why it’s so expensive. I imagine health/safety regulations and indemnity insurance would be a big component of the cost?

Price matching I’d imagine.

“Hey let’s charge the maximum we can get away with.”

Rather than, “Hey let’s undercut our competitors then we can take on more staff and expand.”

Well, minimum wage is high. Insurance is high. Rates are high. Ergo childcare professionals are expensive. Our local creche is 50 euro per day per child. For one child that’s 250 euro a week. €13,000 per year in creche fees. Per child. I don’t know how the feck people afford to have three or four children. University is cheaper!

Prices are insane to be honest.. Both my wife and myself work, but if we did not use a unregistered childcarer we would be better off not working.

The Danes has it right.. Parents pay a max of 25%, the state pays the rest = more people can work = less money needed to pay the dole + allowances..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/18/britain-learn-denmark-childcare-model

The more of these studies that conclude that someone is better off on benefits instead of working, the more the idea of a Universal Basic Income makes sense…

No, Mattoid, no.

Because UBI assumes that everyone has an inalienable right to not work and yet still reap the full benefits of society.

No one has a right to not work. That would be incredibly stupid.

People who do not contribute and who do not want to contribute and yet still want all the advantages that those who contribute get can take a long walk off a short pier.

The sort of socialism that UBI proposes can only work if there is a strong component of capitalism that is willing and able to support it and allow it to leech off it. What actually happens is that in the longer term capitalism gets a bit fed up with socialism and would much prefer that it slings its hook in no short order, because if socialism stopped leeching off capitalism, capitalism realises that it would be much better off.

I take your point, but unfortunately that mentality is there already with some people.
The sort of UBI I’m talking about is one that is sufficient to provide for the very basics, ie. enough food to have a reasonable basic nutritious diet, and no frills accommodation. Not one that enables the recipient to run a car, buy designer clothing, go out to the pub, own an iPhone, take foreign holidays etc..
That way the incentive to work is always there, but those who choose not to will not starve.

totally agree, why the hell am I breaking my back to pay for an easier life for someone on social welfare.

@Jason Walsh in fairness you have to sympathise with a lot of people on welfare at the moment, I do believe that most people want to work. I’m sure the cost of being in work was much greater during the “good times”, when we were at almost full employment, and social welfare rates were far more generous. Of course there’s a small percentage who choose social welfare as a lifestyle choice, but its a little unfair to say people are on it for an easier life now!

Barry, the cost of working is higher now than during the boom for two big reasons.

1)Petrol prices are much higher
2)Tax is higher. USC has reduced everyones take home pay dramatically, making costs a higher proportion of your pay.

@Barry, I sympathise with people who find themselves unemployed after working all their lives, these people should be assisted in getting back to work asap. These people already have a work ethic. I have zero respect or tolerance for people who have never worked and are happy to cream the country for what they can, free house, fuel, esb, phone, every allowance known to man, and expect it as they are “entitled”. Most of us ordinary working people would be extremely lucky to have ?288 a week after mortgage. childcare, commuting costs etc are paid. In fact, I would say most would be lucky to have ?88 a week after these costs are paid. It’s a joke. If you have never paid income tax/PRSI you should get ?50 a week, end of. That way those who have become recently unemployed get maximum support and those working and contributing maybe get tax credits towards childcare or something else beneficial.

As someone who worked for 20 years, paid tax at the higher rate and PRSI, I found myself unable to work after developing a long term illness and it pisses me right off when I hear sweeping generalisations about people living the high life thanks to the mega payment of 188 euros from the SW. However, given that I live in a community where unemployment was high during the boom times, I am only too aware that that is because there ARE people out there who have made living off the dole a lifestyle choice. This is because they know and use every trick in the book to get everything for nothing. What they dont get from the relieving (local welfare) officer the get from the “Vinnos”, and this allows them to spend money going on holidays to Spain every year and have cars. The majority of people who are on the dole are on it because they have been unlucky enough to lose their jobs and these people are more than entitled to collect their money every week because they worked and contributed to society.
My opinion is this – if people have worked and paid their way they sould be entitled to their basic payments aswell as the extra benefits such as fuel allowance. If however, you have never worked then you’re benefit should be cut to around 150 euros which will just about allow you to pay rent, food, esb and phone, with no extra benefits (fuel allowance). It might incentivise these people to go out and pay their way, should we ever be in a situation where we are at full employment.

Keep the head up Brendan, it’s tough but it’s certainly the lesser of two evils.

It’s not so much that a person can’t afford to get a job, more that a person can afford to not get a job.

The danger of too much socialism.

That’s the difference Seamus. It’s people like you that need maximum support and assistance in getting back to work, not the scrounger that has never worked a day in his life. I admire people like you who are trying to run a house and get back in the job market

As they’re at home they can make their own sarnie for munch and not go to an over priced deli.

For lunch.

Excuse the typo.

Excellent comment.

Ridiculous viewpoint

Fair enough. Well argued I guess.
This has been my own experience though so what would I know.

I wouldn’t call commuting costs flittering away money. Another huge expense for working people. That’s what I disagree with

No. Of course not.
It’s not a big point but all I’m saying is that in our house when one of us wasn’t working, they ended up spending lots of money during the day. You tend to take more trips to the shops, take the kids more places, etc.
Obviously this is only applicable where there is another income coming into the house.
My point is that the report is very simplified. There are all sorts of factors.

Agreed Fintan, maybe I was a bit crass with my first reply. Just maddened with this topic. I’ll tell you another one which made me laugh. A local creche, ?170 a week for a working person. ?25 if you are in the dole. How is that fair? Should the working person who is contributed not get the reduced rate?Why do you need childcare services if u are at home all day?

If you are unemployed why would you be putting your child in a creche. Surely the ONLY advantage of being out of work is getting to spend more time with your children.

Yes, but maybe single parents need some time to go look for work etc? I don’t know how easy it’d be going to interviews and handing out cvs if you have to bring children along.

If that was the case they could organise a family member, friend or neighbour to look after the child/children for a couple of hours.

My point is Eleen, why should an ordinary working person have to pay extortionate money for childcare, while someone on the dole pay hardly anything. Your point about interviews, unless you are doing interviews 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, you don’t really need childcare on the dole, do you? The system is a joke

Agreed, we have a smart casual dress code and most days most of us dress fairly smart. Today, after a rough night with the baby, I threw on jeans and a blouse… if I had to go through the rigmarole of getting suited up I probably would’ve pulled a sicky to be honest.

Tal, you may not be aware, but if you have a dress code at work, there is a tax credit you can get for that as a PAYE worker.

Really? Did not know that at all! Could you link me please, on twitter I you need too.

Perhaps the journal could do a story on it, since I would hazard, not many people know about it

@P Wurple

Is there really a Tax Credit I can claim for buying, shirts, ties, suits, etc for work. Please share the link or more details

You have to have an actual written dress code, as far as I know. Something pretty strict. The hubbie claims it, I don’t have a dress code. You can do it on the revenue online system. I’ll get more detail and post it.

Its not up to Wurple to provide you with links. Pick up your phone and ring Citizens Advice and they will give you a full list of tax entitlements.

agreed, the shirt and tie is old. i think Star Trek outfits will be the future, Steve Jobs turtle necks are far neater!

Isn’t that the number of people full time unemployed? Ie: not counting those signing for three days a week, doing training courses, gone back to college or on the woeful Jobbridge scheme?

What are you on about?

Read the fifth paragraph!

@ Declan. I think the statement is valid. I’m out the door every morning at 6, I’m at work for half seven. Clock out at 7pm home at half eight. By the time ive the dinner cooked and eat there’s days where I couldn’t be bothered/ genuinely forget to make the sandwiches. Simples

Also the bit about working more and earning more, not everyone is on an hourly rate and or gets overtime

I work a 12 hour shift for 11 days, then get 3 off. Can you tell me when I might get the time to sit in a pub duiring my 11 day shift? I’d love to know.

I work a regular minimum wage job, 9.30-6, live in Dublin, work in Dublin. I leave at 8.30 in the morning & get back at usually around 7.30pm; by the time I get the tills balanced and get the bus home etc.

To get enough sleep I need to be in bed by 11, leaving me 3.5 hours a day to cook, clean, do laundry, wash myself, spend time with my partner (we don’t have any days off together due to different work schedules), etc.

Unless you want to insert a few more hours into my day, I dunno where I would begin to find the time to “sit on my arse”, watching telly, in the pub or otherwise.

In theory, I *could* spend an hour or more making & cleaning up after dinner — which would be eaten at 9pm after having my (half-hour) lunch break at 12.30pm. Realistically? After being on my feet all day, not having eaten for 7-odd hours, yeah I’m gonna get a bloody takeaway. This makes me neither lazy nor exorbitant.

And like I said, I work for minimum wage. I make about €50 a week more than if I were on the dole. Is it worth it? Not really, actually. But I do it anyway.

Fair enough I get all your points

Yeah because we’d all love to live somewhere like America…

And why do people keep blabbing on about the long-term unemployed? If you look back a few years you will see that we have a very small number of long-term unemployed. Irish people will work when there are jobs. As if this tiny minority of people are what’s ruining this country. Stop believing everything you read in the Sun.

That’s not true. I recall in the early years of the last decade being amazed at the number of people I met who had opted out of the world of work. At one point I lived in a house split into 6 flats and I was the only one with a job. It made very little sense, especially at the time.