Very much agreed its the same in Dublin with those feckers in bibs running over to you with their clip board acting as though they’ve known you for years! Definitely not appealing!

“Heeeyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy have you a moment for Concern? :-D”

I walk by those concern pests and give money to the busker singing Luke Kelly songs.

It’s the star-fish dance that annoys me, ‘Hey man, I’m quirky’ Let’s see how quirky you are when I lodge that clipboard in your skull you C***

Would actually give to Concern if they had volunteers collecting. Really really annoys me every single ‘fundraiser’ you spot on the street is being paid €13 – €17 an hour to ‘fundraise for charity’ (More or less your montly payment goes instead to pay for their hour wage).

I am so stealing “star-fish dance”.

Shane, the next time they say that to you just reply “Yes of course, I could do with some help!”. It drives them mental every time!

Bloody hate the concern people, it borders on harassment

Oh this reminds me of this http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/article.php?id=352
Its basically like reality!

Exactly ask them how much of the money actually goes to charity and how much they make off you if you sign up,its all a scam people look at the bosses most are on over 200k a year.

@Shane, and if you’ve ever tried to dig into a charity’s accounts, you’ll know how obscure they are. There’s a separate line for “governance” expenditure, but guess what? Most of the salaries don’t fall under that. The head honchos are regarded as “charitable expenditure”.

Concern has a wage bill of €12.3 million per year, out of about €50.3 million in donations – that includes all the direct debits and corporate donations. But it gets €104 million from public sector sources, of which the EU and Irish govt are the largest. (http://is.gd/7ObxqE) All this is a bit hard to square with the whole idea of the public voluntarily chipping in to try to do some good in the Third World.

And Concern are not one of the worst ones.

Week Shane, the CEO of another “not for profit” organisation is being paid €200k+ a year. So €4000 A WEEK has to be fundraiser just to pay that wage. It is nuts.

Be very interesting to see how many of their donations are new donations received from the street fundraisers, compared with long term donaters/company donations. Would not be surprised at all if heard Concern etc were making a loss on new donations versus cost of paying fundraisers. Their reasoning is probably the fact the fundraising also increases brand awareness of chairity. The problem is for a lot of people (as highlighted by comments on this page) the brand reputation and experience isnt a good one.

@Gaius. That’s brilliant lol

I done a bucket collection at christmas time for the Simon community,i stood about 20 feet from two chuggers the looks they shot my way was great,all the public stayed clear of them and came to me,one woman put 20 euro into the bucket.

Hate the bag packers, but still always donate as I dont mind supporting the local charities or a specific fundraising goal. They should get training first though – putting eggs and bread at the bottom is maddening ;-)

Nice one Barry :-)

Actually Concern staff do not work on commission. Other charities do which is a disgrace but the ones for Concern are actual staff of the charity and get paid an hourly rate. Putting staff that work in street collecting just encouraging them to be aggressive in their approach I think.

Same happened to me on Grafton st.
I kept saying no thanks, I don’t have time etc, and yer man would not get out of my face. I told I had worked with development NGO before and that i appreciated the work he was trying to do but that I wasn’t going to support his organisation (which was NOT a well known organisation but one for alcoholics I think) and he made an ignorant comment how I should give him money then.

Oh come on, who wouldn’t give their bank details to a complete stranger in a brightly coloured jacket who just accosted them in the street?

Damien someone has obviously brainwashed you. 1) exactly what skills do ‘professional fundraisers’ have volunteers wouldn’t? As far as I a aware training amounts to 1-2 days of how to deal with irritated people – irratated for all the reasons I mentioned . 2) Fundraising once licensed can be done on any occasion,so could easily obtain license in advance 3) why cant volunteers collect DD details? very much doubt your ‘professional fundraisers’ are vetted and only ones who can collect DD details 4) Not just talking about aggressive behaviour I am also talking about oversell where Id say people are being asked ‘do you have a minute’ about 400 times a year!!!!! So people have to say no 400 times a year to person on the street being paid to be there????

Sorry system seems to have posted reply under wrong comment …oops

Of course they’re not doing it for free! Nor do they pretend to. They are legally obliged to tell you that they are paid. It’s their job, just like you (hopefully) have a job. I’ll grant you that you – and a lot of people – might find them a nuisance, but don’t doubt the value to the charity of what they do, just because they’re not volunteers. In fact, it’s exactly because they are paid that they are so valuable to the charity, because they can fundraise full-time instead of just for a couple of hours in their spare time on the one or two days a year when there is a flag day.

If they work for an external agency, they are paid by the agency, which is a seperate company. So the same amount of money still goes to the charity whether they were paid or not. If they work directly for the charity, they are paid out of the charity’s fundraising budget – ie. the money that every single charity must spend in order to make money. In other words, they generate hugely more income than they cost, and the fact theat they’re paid to do their job shouldn’t be any more of a scandal than that you’re paid to do yours.

Charities who use that method of fundraising will tell you it brings in vastly more funding than coins in a bucket.
What’s more, it is far more valuable for the charity because it gives them a regular income, It gives them the security to plan ahead, to know what they can budget for, so they can do much more.

Giving cash to volunteer collectors on a day like today is of course really important to charities, but if you really want to make a lasting sustainable impact with your charity giving, I’d suggest you consider actually stopping to talk to one of those people sometime.

(let the red thumbs commence!)

Damien what bull. At most I can see them getting circa 3 people a day to hand over their bank details etc. The fact they are being paid a rate of €13-17 an hour and they ask you to donate circa €25 a month… more or less means your donation is paying for them to be there to harass you and some administration costs with far less going to the actual charity itself which was meant to be the whole point – unless you stay signed up for a year+ (Only to get stopped 3-4 times a day, 3-4 days a week still asking you to join).

Damien, it may be effective in terms of making money but it’s an obnoxious move for a charity to make. People are pressured into an immediate long-term commitment in a way that would be regarded as deeply suspect if it were any reason other than charity. Bad enough when there are pushy shop assistants in places you’ve chosen to go into, but being hassled on the street? I’m sure some of them have the best of intentions, but I’ve encountered far too many vile human beings while trying to make it across Westmoreland Street.

Peter – not bull. Why don’t you take a look at the websites of some of the charities who use street fundraising and check out their accounts to see just how much goes on administration, and how much goes on fundraising – a fraction of which will constitute the wages of fundraisers. And keep in mind while you’re at it that every euro spent out of a fundraising budget generates something to the tune of €4 euros in income. As for your €25 a month, donors on average stay with a charity for something like four to seven years – so if they signed up 3 people a day for €25 a month, that’s maybe €3,000-6,000 they’ve generated for the charity in that one day. That’s ahell of a lot more than they’re paid! Don’t kid yourself – if it worked out the way you painted it, no charity would do it because they’d be shooting themselves in the foot. The objective is to raise as much funds as possible and street fundraising has actually shown to be one of if not the most cost-effective forms of fundraising for larger charities.

Claire – agreed. They shouldn’t hassle. There’s a fine line between expressing the urgency of the cause and guilt tripping people. I know some do pressurise, but I also know of others who have put in place codes of conduct to prevent fundraisers pressurising people. A line I heard from one manager was “A good fundraiser is one who can make someone feel comfortable to say no.” Some of them do have scruples, believe it or not!

Damien there are 450,000 unemployed in this country, every single company know of support time off for charity work, and most university students dying to get any kind of work experience – so do you really think for one second wouldnt be able to do exact same job with non paid volunteers or least pay minimum wage????

That would save circa €11 million for Concern ALONE a year (More or less every single individual Irish donater excluding companies and state grants). Plus as I mentioned above I very much doubt new subscribers versus cost of fundraising is profitable – as most who can donate to Concern etc already are and have been for years.

Peter – I’m one of those 450K. I’m also someone who did that job a long time ago. I know what it’s like to be standing on the spot for 7 hours on a day like today, frozen, drenched and dispirited, but still trying to maintain enthusiasm because of a belief in the cause you are trying to gain support and funding for. It’s a hard, hard, hard job – physically and emotionally – and it takes a lot of commitment, because it’s 7 hours a day, 4-6 days a week, outside in every weather, being ignored and verbally abused much more than you are treated with respect. And like any hard job, it deserves fair remuneration. It is not a job that people are going to commit themselves to for long – however much they believe in the cause – if they are paid a pittance. The turnover as it is is extremely high. Pay minimum wage, or nothing at all, and no one will stick it, nor should they be expected to.

It’s a job, and the majority of people do it because they genuinely want to make a difference to the world through the work that they do. They are not just people who stand on the street to hassle other people. They are trained, knowledgeable professional who care about what they do. Do you think that other charity workers – doctors, nutritionists, engineers, logisticians – could do what they do for very long if they weren’t paid for it? Then why shouldfull-time professional fundraisers?

Damien,

Look at the comments it should give you insight. Irish are very giving people and will to give but gets very tiresome when you are being stopped 2-3 times a week by 7-8 people from same chairity 52 weeks a year. Some are aggresive and other work in packs where cant get by the group unless stop at some stage. Thats why some get rude or refuse to give if anything.

What is the need for ‘Professional fundraiser’ in any way, in a small country like ireland? Could easily organise volunteers in major shopping areas, business centres say once a month and obtain same level of donations/brand penetration. If anything it would be far far better as people are tired of the oversell, people more giving to volunteers then more or less paid employees trying to sell you something wrapping it up as charity, cost savings could be used by the charity for starving etc. well the list is endless.

Sorry Damien, it’s professional begging.

Peter – I’ve already explained how regular giving, particularly through an organised direct debit, is always going to be massively more beneficial to the charity. They know what is coming in months and even years in advance.This means that they can use it much more efficiently and plan far more effective progrsmmes. This is impossible with cash collections, as has just been shown by the fact that Daffodil Day donations have been cut in half by something as fickle as the weather. Regardless of how often you go collecting (and legally a charity is allowed to collect cash on a very limited numbers of days a year) it will never be close to as effective. Those are the simple facts of fundraising, even if you don’t like them.

Volunteers are fantastic people and I am hugely respectful of them, but frankly, there are certain extremely important methods of fundraising where volunteering simply does not make practical sense.

I totally understand that people find street fundraisers annoying. And I totally agree that no fundraiser should ever pressurise anyone into giving anything. But if you don’t want to, just say “no” politely and keep walking – simple.
Just don’t doubt the importance of professional fundraisers in securing reliable dependable income charities otherwise would be far less equipped to access.

Damien someone has obviously brainwashed you.

1) Exactly what skills do ‘professional fundraisers’ have volunteers wouldn’t? As far as I a aware training amounts to 1-2 days of how to deal with irritated people – irritated for all the reasons I mentioned . 2) Fundraising once licensed can be done on any occasion,so could easily obtain license in advance never said anything about cash collections only i.e volunteers could do exactly same job as ‘professional fundraisers’ dont think you need phd to write down bank details 3) Not just talking about aggressive behaviour I am also talking about oversell where Id say people are being asked ‘do you have a minute’ about 800 times a year (7-8 times a day x 2 days a week x 52 weeks)!!!!! So people have to say no 800 times a year to person on the street being paid to be there???? Yet you dont understand why people tired and get irritated at prof fundraisers?

Plus Damien ‘certain extremely important methods of fundraising’ is what exactly? Certainly not people skills or knowing when to back off etc if you read every comment on this page apart from your own. I know a number of people who have fund-raised and not single one got more then day or two training… and only vetting was a few questions to ensure they had basic knowledge of charity fundraising for and had no previous convictions.

So I ask you again. What is the need for professional fundraisers in Ireland? When could not be done by volunteers less often but on targeted days? (collected bank details etc in same way..only difference is the charity gets 100% of donations instead of 70%)

Peter, I’ve already addressed just about every point you’re trying to make here. It’s not as simplistic as professional fundraisers taking a percentage cut of the donation. That’s not how it works, but I’ve explained it two or three times already, so if you’re not grasping it, I suggest you reread my previous comments.

The one new point is about the training. It is a couple of days INITIAL training, supplemented by continual coaching and further follow-up training sessions. I’m sure you know yourself that it’s somewhat facetious to suggest that the only thing they need to know is how to fill out a form. Generally speaking, they are the most public face of the charity and so need to be knowledgeable about campaigns, finances, programmes and the underlying contexts of the programme fields. They need to understand the operations of the organisation, thoroughly know the details of specific programmes, be informed of and familiar with constantly changing situations – for example in the case of current emergencies or crises in programme countries.

Where I worked, there were regular updates and briefings with returning field workers to ensure that street fundraisers were fully equipped with the latest updates and had the hard data to be able to give the public off the top of their heads if they were asked. That is not a realistic proposition for volunteers, who almost by definition, have only spare time to commit.

Damien,

1) Volunteers means support without payment. Why would retired civil servants who wish to remain active, university students/unemployed those who wish to obtain work experience not be able to give a similar amount of time say 1 Saturday a month for training, supported by online training/discussion? (web blogs, discussion forums, odd meet and greets as you mention?) or something similar to jobbridge for 9 months but for charities to keep unemployed active?

2) Your own statements supports my case as you admit extreme high turnover in fundraisers. So you HAVE to ask exactly how many are still left who have been there for long period and how many have just as much experience as a long term volunteer would obtain (who more then likely would be inclined to stay longer as less stress and people would be less irritated by volunteer asking same question but less often)

3) You explained the multiplier effect in which four times amount spent on wages is made up in donors. That does not mean for one second wages are not being funded by donations either directly or indirectly. Even if indirectly, VERY SIMPLE LOGIC suggests by using volunteers with hand full of experienced paid regional co-ordinators/ volunteer team leaders you could save millions a year which could be redirected to front line areas such as food and medicine – where it is meant to be going in first place.

4). People are now less inclined to give as its being oversold by full time staff in same locations every second day. You would increase donations if was less selling/assertive campaigning by certain charities.

5) Simple fact is, full scale ‘professional fundraising’ in Ireland just a waste of money with overkill which is turning almost everyoneeeeeeee against the charity rather then wanting to support it. But seems like no getting through to you despite fact your only person on this whole comment area who thinks its a good idea ney HATES the current form of ‘professional fundraisers’.

Well said, Damien.

I’m the same- I have my select couple that I have a direct debit for, but refuse point blank to give to anyone who employs chuggers (Concern etc).
I hate the intimidating tactics they use.
Something like Daffodil Day is different in my eyes though- I actually look forward to giving them a few bob at this time of year :D

Fair play 5% is a lot to give

@AS: http://www.herald.ie/news/charity-chiefs-earn-up-to-150k-three-times-average-pay-packet-27990063.html

Yes they regularly knock on my door and it’s so frustrating! It’s getting to the point where I don’t want to answer the door in the evening.

I think that there should be a law that they cant come to your door!!!

We got naively walked into it by the knock on the door two years ago, again by an apparently well-respected developing world charity. In the following weeks when we thought about the unfairness of the approach and how we’d been pressured in our own home we withdrew. For months afterwards were bombarded with letters and phone calls pressuring us to re-join. A cautionary tale I hope.

Sad to say but a charity came to my door yesterday looking for just €0.50c a day and I said no. It’s not much, until you multiply that by 365 which is €182.50 That to my household is 18 boxes of baby food C&G, or a hell of a lot of nappies, and that’s now what we are down to. Counting the coins

The CEO of a charity which is collecting this weekend earns €180k it so a year. No thanks.

Chuggers

Yep happened to me in Grafton at. Wouldn’t let me pass him, even when I turned around as walked back the way I had come. Wouldn’t get out of my face

The phrase “charity begins at home” has had its meaning warped over the years. From the original Greek, the word for charity was agape and it also means love and affection. It wasn’t referring to the giving of money. Charity begins at home meant that a loving home environment leads to a giving spirit, it doesn’t mean only help your own people.

As for your comments on Africa, I know what you mean about our citizens current hard times. I have lost my job in the recession. But did you happen to watch any of Red Nose Day last weekend? Poverty and hardship here is nothing compared to the poverty in Africa. We were shown reports of children dying because their parents can’t afford a €5 vaccine. The same vaccine all Irish children receive for free. We were shown reports of parents dying of Aids who could not take their medicine as they need food in order to do so and they are choosing instead to feed their children. Our health care system is very poor, but I doubt there are many here forced to make that choice.

Things are tough here right now for sure, but in no way comparable with the suffering of the worlds absolute poor. I give what I can, when I can to any charity at home or abroad.

Charity begins and ends where it’s needed.And each to their own as to what constitutes a worthy cause to them.

+100% regarding Niall Mellon.

I shoukd say that I was never paid when I volunteered, all of the money should go to the charity, otherwise what is the point?

So you refuse to help the needy people and use their desperation to show the people who spend the war budgets who is boss ?

Okay.

In fairness Fily, we live in a country with one of the most progressive tax regimes in the world (according to UN figures).

There is a huge reallocation of wealth from the middle classes to the needy through social welfare compared to other western countries. It is not possible to choose to not give money to charity if you pay tax here.

Good point, I do think however the line of thought that stops you putting a euro into a Focus Ireland charity box because the US and China made 10 billion of tanks last year is a bit much.

I barely have money for myself at this late stage of the man made crisis we are all insisting we suffer under instead of forcing a massive change in the system we live under and the people who completely control it. I would rather fight back by protesting to end to all war and move the money to better causes or am I wrong??

Gearoid, that is very Utopian of you. But look at what these charity CEOs and workers are being paid. It is surreal.

excellent point Eamonn and my original points still stand, how dare governments spend so much on war, for who’s benefit other than their own are they spending all this made up money?? how dare the catholic church hoard so much wealth when the bible tells us to give away everything we own to give to the poor!!

Gearóid – there is a limited amount of land and limited amount of food and resources. Saying that if governments donated 10% of the money spent on war to the poor would not simply end poverty. What happens the following year. Another 10% and then another the year later. Handing out charity to individuals doesn’t grow crops or drill oil wells or build factories. We’re truly in trouble if we can’t see how to permanently end poverty.

I don’t think there is a cure, just really effective treatments. I don’t think it’s ever gone though…

You give it to the church Stephen and the church keeps it all for themselves.

I won’t red thumb you, but I still won’t give to chuggers

How many people does the average chugger sign up each day. I suspect there are lots of days when they come up empty. Surely they’d make more money politely collecting change with a bucket?

Fair enough, Paul.
Waffler Towers – not even close. Sometimes they may come in empty, but it is more than made up for by the times they don’t. Let’s say you sign up for a fiver a month. £60 a year, and I’ve heard that the average time a donor stays with a charity after signing up is something like 7 years. That’s £420 for the charity (coming in in regular, dependable installments) from speaking to one person. How many people will have to give you change before you get that?

Yes Damien and how much would a ‘Professional fundraiser’ cost for those seven years? lets say €40,000 a year x 7 years = €280,000 while the same could be done by volunteers = €0 (maybe a pint as thanks every so often).

€280,000 would be what? the charity vaccinating 60,000 more children in Africa etc in those 7 years?

Peter – see my comment to you way above. Also the comment where I explain how they’re paid in a way that detracts not one red cent from the charities’ programme budget. If you got rid of them, or replaced them with volunteers, the charity would actually have LESS programme funding, not more. I know you don’t like that, but that’s a plain and simple fact. And it’s based on the very simple concept of investment – you put money into a project in order to generate very much more money than you would have if you didn’t invest it.

Like it or not, the simple – and proven – fact is that it is not possible to generate the same level of regular income with volunteers. I’m sorry you don’t accept that, but it doesn’t make it any less true.

Damien, So your saying ‘Professional Fundraisers’ get paid 13-17 Euro an hour but the charities dont pay this? Do they get paid in beans? As far as I am aware Concern made circa €50 Million in donations last year about half coming from from companies, sponsorship and events…..with circa €11 million being spent on ‘professional fundraisers’ . Exactly how would volunteers cost more????????? If fundraisers had skill, phd in fundraising etc I could see your point but as far as I am aware only difference is 1-2 days training in charity details and how to deal with pulic when irritated (ironically most get irritated after being asked for 800th time by same charity personal if they have a minute….. as I discussed above).

Never said replace fundraisers with volunteers with buckets collecting cash ….but why cant volunteers collect DD details just as well as ‘Professional Fundraisers’? as far as I am aware fundraisers are not vetted or accredited by Central bank so only ones who can do this etc.

Never said the charites don’t pay them. In fact, my very first post explained how they are paid from the charity’s allocated fundraising budget, not its programme budget. Paying them therefore does not detract from the amount of money available for programme work. In fact, paying them contributes to more programme funding because they can afford to be fundraising full-time instead of in their spare time.

But I’ve said all this before. There’s nothing you’ve raised that I haven’t already addressed, so just reread my previous comments.

Gets annoying when you have to repeat yourself over and over again doesn’t it Damien???? Must get real annoying repeating yourself 800 times a year dont you think? And again pure non-sense. If you have one budget for fundraising and one for the charity….its very simple if you lower budget for fundraising by using volunteers you can then use that money instead for the front end of the charity.