Brilliant idea, doesn’t have to be miliitary service, but a year or two years national service and then your college/training course is paid for by the state sounds fair.

They’ve something similar in Switzerland and it does exactly that

In Switzerland they do a 9 month stint when they finish school and then 2 weeks per year until they turn 30.

Yeah, teach ‘scrotes’ (what a nasty term to use, by the way) how to use guns and bayonets and then release them back into the community. Really, this is nonsense.
Having community service where people can contribute, and can learn basic skills like building, plumbing, electrics, carpentry, computers, paramedic skills, cookery – that would be useful.

I can see the benefits of a “National Community Service”, it wouldn’t have to be based around the military but could instead teach young adults some real skills and how to be decent people. The problem is how would we do this here when we can’t even pay for and run a police force in our country, don’t even mention the state of our national Health Service. Unfortunately we have to prioritise and ideas like this, while very good and and likely to have an excellent outcome will require funding that, at the moment, is needed elsewhere. Hopefully that will change in time.

Put the scrote parents in with them.

Very true. Only need to look at our behaviour during World War 2 which shows that, when push comes to shove, we’ll break that neutrality in a heartbeat.

When you can’t protect your neutrality like Switzerland can, you have to rely on others which Austria is leaning towards. And if you have to rely on others to protect your neutrality you aren’t neutral.

You can join up part time so enjoy

Couldn’t agree more. Well said

As a scout leader I think it’s a bit worrying that you see modern scouting and military service as the same thing. You can teach a kid how to be independent, compassionate and savvy without sending them off to the army.

I want to hear more about tents been run over by tanks… please…

Again you don’t see the point. If they did a community service, we would be getting value for money rather than having them sit on the dole

William, take it as a badge of honour when someone like Stanley Groves says to you that “Again you don’t see the point” …… I wish he’d say it to me! :-)

A year of community service creating community gardens in Ireland, working tidy towns, caring for the elderly, etc. combined with FCA training for teamwork, discipline, dress and drill would be a great idea for helping young people who seem so lost in Ireland at the moment. We can afford lots of things now that we are ‘potential’ trillionaires. Don’t know if you heard. Europa Oil and Gas Holdings (UK) have announced Jan 16th) they estimate they have discovered 1.6 billion barrels of oil at the Kiernan Prospect in the South Porcupine Basin. Along with the Barryroe Field that’s 3.2 billion barrels of oil discovered in the past 6 months with 67 more areas being explored. More info re Europa Oil and Gas news on http://www.Trillions.ie

We actually can. All we have to do is stop giving our money to Third world countries €600 odd million A year I believe

“a year or so of armed service” would help straighten out kids? What about the ones that don’t come back?

The ones that don’t come back…. Where exactly do you think they are being deployed too? How many Irish soldiers have been killed, not by accidents but by combat, in the last decade? I suggest you stop reading newspaper stories about other militaries and applying it to your own.

Agreed, having spent Time in Austria you can see the positive impact on peoples outlook. If Irish teens did this maybe they wouldnt grow up to be the self-entitled snobs our country is blighted with.

I lived in Austria for two years, I actually bought the grey jumper they give the people during their nine months service which I got in a second hand shop in 2003 and I still wear it.
They can opt to do 1 year community service instead of military, my friends who did the service said it was great craic and none of them were sent to war as Austria is neutral.
Moreover, Austrians are very well mannered and Vienna is the safest city in Europe. Im sure it’s not because of the service, but still, I always wished I could have done it.

I don’t want to be forced to do something I do not want or need to do. It’s that simple.

ata boy Joost

I’m against it as a free man. I’m not property of the state and wouldn’t like my children to be treated so. If someone wants to join the army / fire brigade / garda, they can apply freely. Otherwise, forcing people to serve any time anywhere is just a punishment for a crime they didn’t commit. Besides, I thought Ireland is a neutral country, not a militaristic satrapy?

@Joost. You probably didn’t want to be forced to go school when you were a kid either. Or do your homework. Or eat your vegetables. Or pay your taxes. There are actually a lot of things that we don’t want to do but are “forced” to do. They are not all bad. Personally, I think I would’ve liked it and I think we all leave school/college highly educated but not particularly skilled. It could be very beneficial for the nation at large and for each of us individually.

B Collins, your examples are terrible.

As a child you do not have the same mental capabilities as an adult to make a decision, your parents or guardians do that. They have, or should have, the right to not send you to school. Eating my vegetables is not something the state enforces. I am equally opposed to being violently forced to pay taxes as being violently forced to join the army. All your statements hold no value, all they prove is that people are forced to do things they do not want to do. Whether they are beneficial or not is subjective and in essence irrelevant to the entire conversation. Any other points to show as to why I or any other lad my age should be forced to join military service?

Well for a start Austria, Norway, Finland and Denmark are in a good economic state. Perhaps if our politicians had done some national service we wouldn’t be in such a mess.

Treasa, thanks for that bit of balance, I was getting a tad bit worried there with all the comments. A lot could be done to give young adults some direction and purpose in life, but forcing them to do military service sounds like slapping an emergency plaster on a much bigger problem.

I did 2 years conscription in the South African Military as a combat soldier. If I refused I would been thrown in jail for 6.5 years

Exactly my point. Forcing otherwise law abiding citizens to do something against their will under the threat of prolonged imprisonment is ridiculous. You could make an argument for it during war or where there’s a real danger of a war but otherwise it’s just the government infringing on people’s rights unnecessarily.

Sounds like slavery to me. No thanks, I’d like to be free to choose my own path in life.

I see your point! But you’re not seeing the big picture. If you read most of the comments there is a lot of teenagers out there that have no direction. Nothing to get up in the morning for. Conscription will help a vast amount of people with self discipline, maturity, direction and some meaning to life.

Well, there’s a bigger problem here if we need to invent places for them to go to get some meaning in their lives…don’t you think?

There is so much wrong with this country right now, so much to fight for and work towards, so many suffering. In fact the whole island is sinking. Why aren’t these youngsters eager to pull their sleeves up and start taking an active role in this society? Why are they disengaging?

Well, did anyone teach them about social responsibilities while they were growing up? Did anyone open their eyes to the injustices and poverty surrounding them? Those in poverty themselves – they’re probably too busy lashing out at who ever’s nearest because no one taught them how to fight for their rights.

And young people learn by example, yanno. Look at all of us here, the country’s going under and we’re just bickering and moaning about it. The protests and marches are miniscule compared to other parts of the world. I don’t see that many people using their time to help more disadvantaged members of society, or sticking up for each other’s rights.

And against all odds, there are plenty of young people with energy and enthusiasm who are doing their best with what little they have to try and make an impact, in small and big ways. You can’t just read a load of comments on a news site and say “oh yeah well if five people here are saying teenagers are lazy, then they must all be lazy!”. Come off it, you obviously don’t know too many teenagers.

Stamley, you are reading the comments wrong., It’s not the young people talking here, it’s the so callled grown ups that are afraid of the younger people, like yourself. You are putting these so called facts down from your own fear or misunderstanding of today’s youth

… got a lot from it in terms of personal development but also contributed a lot.

Agreed, we should open up all barracks that were shut, anyone at a loose end could be co ordernated to do projects that will help community/country..
The threat is not war but collapse of this country.

With due respect Gill – being out of work is surely already enough of a sentence .
Training our people in the use of Guns would be a disaster for this Country.
After reading and watching the recent murder events with Guns in USA , why would we want to revert to the bad old days of Guns in this Country?

Rather than having military service, we could look at having a year of compulsory state service support (Personally, i think transition year should be used for that). If run right, students who fail in their support (ie hours provided), are forced to repeat it etc (exceptions for hospitalisation etc). It would teach the students discipline, motivate them for College/University, and obviously the country would garner the benefit of having the students support local schemes like ;itter collection, community creche support etc etc. Just my opinion.

I am against the proposal of training every young person to handle guns and training them how to kill people. This concept just runs against my values.

The wouldn’t only be shown how to use a gun! There’s a lot more that people can learn from found a stint in the army! Apart from the mechanical, electrical, telecommunications and other types of trades that can be learned through the army people can also learn to be disciplined, how to respect others and most of all how to survive in though conditions! Most people would lost with the everyday niceties that they are accustomed to! The army would serve a lot of people well!

Really got to start spell checking! Predictive text is not my friend!

@ The OP: I presume this novel idea would also extend to your good self? Based on current figures, that would give us one of the largest armies in Europe by simple figures and by percentage of population, the world. Do you see an issue there at all? Do you see any possible issue at all with creating a non-professional army of two hundred thousand? You shouldn’t need to think too hard about this.

We have all laughed at the FCA in this country, which in the past often trained without real weapons and instead concentrated on non-combative training. Maybe something structured on the same lines might be useful for military service. We are entering an age of more uncertainty – technology is developing faster than society can change to keep up, we may face more extreme weather events, world food shortages could well become commonplace, capitalism (at least in its current form) seems to becoming as much as a failure as communism. We may be looking forward to civil unrest and much more wars internationally, and possibly also domestically (probably a bit more long term).
Having a population that is trained in disaster relief, dealing with civil unrest, etc. that could be called up from reserve might become not just a nicety, but a necessity.

No! As a former soldier, it’s either in you or it’s not!
Nothing as bad as chasing after a pup who really doesn’t want to be there!

To Alan Lawlor , the F.C.A did use real weapons for training in the past and they did plenty of duties backing full time soldiers . I was in the reserve and full time regulars myself . The RDF done a lot and are highly respected by the full time soldiers . I found it great to join the RDF before I joined as a full time (PDF) soldier

Most of them can go into “non combatant units” and not even fire a weapon. The Military is not all about killers

This service could extend to Gardia, ambulance service, Fire Service, Navy, etc

The military do more than train their personnel with ‘guns’. They learn an extremely vast amount if skills, from self discipline to physical fitness. In addition the Irish troops deployed overseas have a unique ability to communicate with the local population, despite the tension and conflict. Much more than training with weapons.

Why just keep it to people on the dole?

Here’s a better idea, either everybody, or nobody, regardless if you are on the dole or in a job.

We dont need soldiers! End of

I’d rather a 6-9 month community service than military service but surely it’d be worth considering.

What a comment to make so silly, maybe have people go do a certain amount of volunteer work but forcing people into army , everyone seems to forget a lot of the youth are gone and going so you want 40 and 50 year old men and women who were let down by their government , my parents at this hour of their life to go join the army! Think about your comments will you before you write them , and the people thumbing you up are doing so because we have been told to think that people on welfare are living the life and are laZy and useless just taking your tax money when none of that is true!

We are a neutral country so training everyone for what?
Are you wanting this country to participate in war now

@ Rodge we are not a neutral country. To be neutral we would have to be capable of defending our neutrality. We are simply militarily non aligned.

Neutral means not taking sides, a synonym for non-aligned, just another way of saying it. It doesn’t mean not taking sides and being able to defend that choice militarily. If that were the definition, then there is no such thing as a neutral country anywhere on Earth because the US/UK/China/Russia could flatten any of the neutral countries in about a week if they were bothered to do so.

Finland and Austria are like us, both neutral too. Why do they bother with this??

what a silly comment ,it may have slipped your tiny little mind but theres a workdwide recession at the moment and work is realy difficult to come by if unemployed

what a silly comment ,it may have slipped your tiny little mind but theres a workdwide recession at the moment and work is realy difficult to come by if unemployed

“should be made… “, oh dear, what a dreadful starting point for the argument.

I expect these are groups you don’t ever see yourself, or anyone you care for, belonging to. And yet we live in such a dynamic world I doubt such confidence is warranted.

@cal1 . Would you propose the same thing for the traveling community

So therefore we subjugate the vast majority of young people into a military service they may not want, or need to do? I’m principally opposed to military drafts, why should I be forced to undergo boot camp for any amount of time?

sure our own parents said the same about us

That’s Gen Z, thanks though

Good man, tar a whole generation with the same brush. There will always be freeloaders and people who’ll genuinely bust a gut, same with every group from every generation. Comments like this are idiotic.

Don’t worry Rob, I’m not that ignorant. I was referring to the general characteristics/stereotypes of the generations.

More like generation Zzzzzzz sometimes :p

Wow, thanks for the generalisation there.

I don’t think that people should be trained to use weapons unless they’re going to be professional soldiers. Training wannabe gang leaders to use weapons would be a disaster! Teach skills like First Aid, CPR and leadership. Teach people how to cook a cheap but nutritious meal from scratch. General fitness could be part of the programme – fitness is one aspect of military training that would be useful.

It worked very well in South Africa!

Genuinely works well in Israel ~ though their siege mentality may make for a more conducive environment for compulsory military service.

It works in israel

Perpetuating hatred is the only thing it does in Israel.

It works in Switzerland. That said, that doesn’t mean it would work in Ireland… it’s a strict social and cultural structure that I just don’t see working in Ireland.

Monica it works well in Switzerland because they have a long standing tradition of defending their neutrality. Whereas we have a long standing tradition of being dismissive of our soldiers. Compulsory Military Service would not work in Ireland.

It failed immensely in the Netherlands.
Probably why they haven’t had compulsory military or civic for years now.

@Monica Heck. They only do it for the gadgety knives.

Still! Seems every generation has folks who fall in that trap, not remembering when they were the teens.

What’s useful in running up and down mountains?

And you society!!!

Ah yes, great idea, teach all those going towards a life of crime how to use guns! A better idea might be to use the community service programme more effectively?

black and tans spring to mind ,no not a good idea and the krays, other than that would be a brilliant concept,used in the right manner

The idea that the Black & Tans were all ex-cons is a myth.
They were just nasty gits; certain people tried to justify their nastiness by saying they were former jail birds. They were mainly experienced soldiers, who had fought in many parts of the empire & in WWI.

Adam…….no no no. It never works to have people who don’t want to be there, particularly young offenders. The military is not some rehabilitation service, nor is it a social service either. Yes, it fosters discipline, team-work and a sense of self sacrifice. It offers massive variety and some adventure. But only for people who want to be there. For those that don’t want to be there it can be a nightmare. It’s not for everyone.

Judges in the late 70′s and early 80′s used it regularly prior to minor criminal offence sentencing and it dumped a lot of problem children in the army. For some – a minority – it worked. But in the main it simply shifted responsibility for them onto the military and a lot of media headline of “soldier arrested for…” or “former soldier jailed for…”. In the main these were those people dumped by the courts into the army and the army took the brunt of the public dismay at their behaviour. It didn’t work and the army was delighted to get rid of them. Back to my original point: it is not a social service or a ‘cheap’ way to fix things that deserve greater, more comprehensive attention and governmental joined-up thinking.

Great idea Show order to kids who’ve never structure in their lives and put some humility into aggro rant D4 graduates A great leveller.

Waffler, i have been to Israel, and i have seen a high level of obesity in the older generations, even though all young men spend 3 years in the military and women spend 2 years. They all come out of the service hell bent on hating Palestinians as a general rule. I would not want that indoctrination to happen the Irish people.

So are they going to hate?? There won’t be any war for them to fight!! They will be doing a community service. Giving back something to the community and not just sitting on the dole and Tax payers have to just pay and pay and pay. They get some worth for the money they pay out

sending the dole que there is ridiculous, people who don’t want to be there won’t hack it. Let people who want to better them selves and learn new skills do it

Teenagers who don’t want to be there won’t hack it either! The army has plenty of merits, but it isn’t a fail-safe substitute for employment, or emigration.

I agree, it should be optional for teenagers but there could be intensives for people who do it during and after

Don’t get me wrong they won’t stop working for cash but at least they might stop claiming since they ll be too busy for any army bullshit

Oh Lad, you hit the nail right on the head. Fair and square!!

I agree that people should only join the army if they want to be professional soldiers. However compulsory community service would benefit everyone. Some people might not want to do it but does everyone want to attend school? Community service would teach people skills, discipline and the value of hard work. Community service programmes might also be a way to get people from different socio-economic backgrounds to work together and break down class barriers. We have bigger class barriers in Ireland than in most other European countries apart from England.

This comment proves your lack of critical thinking skill, paired with a lack of civility.

Well said!!!

Ok how are we to put manners in to these knacks, as you call them? Drilling, shouting at them, forcing them to do things they don’t want to, learning them to kill or support killing, forcing pain on them. And after they leave, you think they would thanks you for that? You think they would be model citizens after that. Great idea, force everyone into submission and get a nice grey society where everyone thinks like you do, because after all you think you’re the model citizen.

Who said anything about training them to be killers. Too much Hollywood for you

Stanley when you join any military service you are expected to kill when ordered. I don’t think every cadet goes through Full Metal Jacket training but all military personal are expected to fight, and, well, kill when necessary.

True, we have already sold our soverignty to the EU so nothing left to protect. The yellow Irish will hand over their kids when the time comes. We didnt even see one century of Independence. Pathetic

They will have some job bringing my kids to war . Yes we have voted for conscription within the E.U but its not relevant to my political beleifs ;-) . When the state over rides individual thought and freedoms it evolves into Facism.Not for me or mine ,Thanks .

Tho in fairness David , ya never know what de ass chaff in gubbermint could dream up!

I think you’re confusing their assertion about the formation of an EU army not compulsory conscription but I suppose when you’re FG you have to add bits on to an argument so you can knock it down…them strawmen fallacies can’t build themselves.
Although seeing as you wanted to bring the Lisbon treaty and it’s outrageous arguments for and against it at the time – how’s that bigger voice in Europe getting on David?….How’s it feel to have parity across the regime and not having 1 country dictate to the others?

Dumb. Most European countries have scrapped conscription. What makes you think Europe wants to reintroduce it and for what purpose?

You think a federal United States of Europe will be neutral? That’s idiotic

Why do you equate neutrality or partiality with militarism? Switzerland is neutral and has conscription, Germany and France are not and do not ave conscription.

The US is has military alliances all over the world and only operates a draft as a last resource, preffering to use the volunteer National Guard as a reserve.

There’s a lot more to the military than fighting.

I know that. The point is the existing military infrastructure is very small and professional in nature. In order to put thousands of young people through it per year you would need to invest billions and completely redesign and realign the nature of the armed forces, something which there is no requirement to do. There’s also constitutional questions that would need to be resolved. Other countries have a history of this, we don’t. It’s never going to happen anyway. One of the marginally more batshit insane recession-busting ideas, I must say.

Waffler, everything in the military in directly or indirectly geared towards fighting and killing. If it’s not, it’s not the military. Simples.

Ireland does have an Air Corps. Check your facts before posting. http://www.military.ie/air-corps

He means Air Force,the Air Corps is in no way a real air force.
We have no fighter jets/interceptors/jammers/tankers/attack helicopters all of which are components of a real air force.
Not saying we need them but thats what an air force is

It’s an Air Corps as it is a part of the Irish Defence Forces umbrella rather than a separate military arm. For example the British Forces have the RAF (Royal Air Force) but the British Army also have an Army Air Corps which is separate to the RAF under the Army only. This is a reflection on the smaller size of the Irish Defence Forces in comparison to say the UK, USA, Pakistan etc. And the types of aircraft owned by the IAC would be purchased based on requirements which are dictated by the mandate coming from the government and Dept of Defence rather than a whim. It would just probably make more sense to use the hardware budget to purchase several naval patrol aircraft, ministerial transport aircraft, helicopters suitable to ground troop support, air ambulance and search and rescue (which are all relevant to the IAC’s actual daily duties) than say just one fighter jet.

Exactly what I was thinking Stanley

youz two should get a room

I knew a guy who had been in UN forces in Sarajevo. When he got drunk he usually cried remembering the stuff he witnessed and took part in as a 21 years old, how it messed him up for life.

He was a volunteer.

Nothing to do with SF…move along.