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Dublin: 6 °C Friday 24 May, 2013

Column: Who are the winners and losers in the referendum campaign right now?

With nine days to go before referendum day, Dr Jane Suiter of UCC analyses the parties and the latest polls to see how the campaign is playing out.

Jane Suiter

AS THE REFERENDUM stands right now, the Yes campaign appears to be holding its own with indications that it is continuing to gain voters. Two polls in recent days paint a similar picture albeit with slightly different numbers. Friday’s Red C poll shows a 6 per cent rise in support for the Yes vote with just two weeks to go, with 53 per cent of voters indicating a Yes while the No vote has fallen by four points to 31 per cent.

Nonetheless, it is still early days as we know that many voters do not decide until about four or five days out from the day of the vote. In Friday’s Red C poll just 16 per cent are undecided, indicating many No voters are switching to undecided. However, the latest Irish Independent/Millward Brown Lansdowne poll found a larger number of undecided voters at 35 per cent –  with a potentially more worrying 30 per cent of both Yes and No voters unsure of why they are voting the way they indicated. Both campaigns thus has far more to do in terms of getting people to understand their messages.

Overall, while the debate is lacking some lustre it appears that the government and other advocates of both votes have take on the broad lessons of referendums past. This time the parties are conducting a campaign both in the media and on the ground going door-to-door while civil society groups are also getting involved. In both the second Nice and Lisbon referendums this only occurred in the second vote.

So far few events have been critical but given the pace of change in Europe, a game changer is still a possibility. It is noteworthy that Declan Ganley’s intervention lacked the traction and attention which he received in the Lisbon campaign. The parties on the Yes side have also managed to a large extent to narrow the frame to future funding needs and away from the No votes preferred frame of austerity versus stability.

Comparing the parties

In terms of the parties Fine Gael has done a good job of converting its voters with some 79 per cent of its voters supporting the Treaty. Interestingly support for the party is still dropping and has fallen by 3 points in just two weeks, leaving Fine Gael with 29 per cent according to Red C – the lowest level of support the party has seen since September 2008. In addition the referendum poll was undertaken prior to recent gaffes by senior Fine Gael ministers Michael Noonan and Richard Bruton – although neither appears likely to have the destabilising impact of Brian Cowen and Charlie McCreevy declaring they hadn’t even read previous treaties.

Labour has perhaps had a less visible campaign although its ministers have not been as gaffe prone. Crucially it has only converted 50 per cent of its voters despite the party waging a reasonably visible door-to-door canvass across many parts of its strongholds. The party put Joan Burton in charge of the campaign perhaps in a bid to woo women voters who are still more undecided than men. However, she has not been as visible in the campaign so far as some of her colleagues.

Fianna Fáil is in an interesting position. The party has always espoused a pro-European position but in opposition has often been lukewarm. Yet this time out Micheál Martin has been one of the most visible advocates of a Yes vote. With 62 per cent of its voters in favour, there is little sign of the old fashioned politicing of Fianna Fáil in opposition where some would publically argue in favour but vote against in a bid to embarrass the government, as happened last in the Oireachtas Inquires referendum. This time, perhaps because of Martin’s very public battle with Éamon Ó Cuív, members appear to be rowing in behind the leadership.

Sinn Féin has a similar conversion rate to Fianna Fail with some 62 per cent of the party’s voters in the No camp. But perhaps the biggest impact for Sinn Fein is the increase in its poll numbers. with the requirements of the McKenna judgment leading to a greatly increased profile for its deputies on the airwaves. Thus Sinn Féin continues to gain support at the same rate that Labour loses it, securing 21 per cent of the first preference vote in the Red C poll, a 2 per cent increase in just two weeks.

As Red C noted, it is worth noting that despite the apparent relationship between Sinn Fein’s rise and Labour’s fall, they are gaining as much from Fine Gael as from Labour, and ultimately the gains are from disaffected 2007 Fianna Fail voters, who initially moved to both Fine Gael and Labour at the 2011 election, and are now looking for a new home

Interestingly this has not benefitted leader Gerry Adams who increasingly looks outdated and out of touch when compared to some of the younger more dynamic deputies such as Mary Lou McDonald and Pearse Doherty. This is reflected in the Independent poll where Adams recorded only 35 per cent satisfaction rating with 51 per cent dissatisfied. In contrast, Taoiseach Enda Kenny’s satisfaction rating stands at 42 per cent, with 52 per cent dissatisfied.

Dr Jane Suiter lectures in the Department of Government at UCC.

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Comments (62 Comments)

  • It will be the fear factor that will make the people vote yes! Nothing else. It’s worked for generations and it will work now: that’s why the yes side keep emphasising we will be locked out of the ESM if we vote no.

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    • We can only be scared if we let them think we are.. Irish people never stick together letting the political classes to believe we are just not worth the effort they d not respect the citizens of this country they have more respect for German and French people than their own.I agree with you Declan i think many people on both Yes and NO feel the same in this treaty i think e get one last chance to have our say on which way we want our country to be govern’ed for the foreseeable future i think if we dont get our point across now as a nation as a self determining people i fear we may be absorb’ed into a union that may not have our 5 million population best interests at heart..if the Irish are happy with there deal why change it they will not have to live here they will only implement the rules that we indicate we are happy with..We need change e need to send our mandate as a people to European leaders on may 31st we are a small nation with big hearts and we need to be treated fairly..as a very worried man living in this country i will be voting NO for the futures of everyone not just the selected few ..

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  • Il be voting no. Dont let our children be burdened with banks and bond holders greed! Irish people need to wake up and say enough is enough.

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  • the esm fund will be a joke. the managers of the esm will be immune from judicial process which means no accountability. so they can do what they want without fear of reprisal. we will have 7 days to pay up when they come knocking. its already been said that if spain need a bailout there isnt enough money to bail them out. the yes campaign are using access to this fund as the main reason to vote yes. it doesnt bloody exist yet and do we really want to hand over billions to a fund where A) the management answers to nobody and B) wont work if a couple countries nees bailing out or if spain does. voting no is the only chance ireland has to renegotiate the bank debt. we should not be ratifying a treaty that could change over the summer. we should not ratify anything that leads to anyone having unaccountable control of huge funds and we should not be signing our economic sovereignty away. a no vote is the only chance we have of ever trying to get out of the mess we are in. the treaty claims to prevent it happening. but lets sort ourselves out first.

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    • Ganley said it and was ignored, but he was only echoing the most authoritative international observers like Roubini, Krugman, and Stiglitz and papers like the Financial Times, Economist and Wall St Journal: the ESM will not work because it is too small and Spain will hoover it up in its entirety.

      As a so-called firewall, it is a joke. Far from stopping the fire, it will burn up within a week.

      We really are being sold a pup. Vote NO!

      Reply
    • they are *not* immune they way you mean it. They must conduct their business within their frame of reference. If they step outside their frame of reference they are not immune. If they break the law they are liable for it just as anyone is. Just another red-herring in a long list of red-herrings.

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    • “The ESM, its property, funding and assets, wherever located and by whomsoever held, shall enjoy immunity from every form of judicial process except to the extent that the ESM expressly waives its immunity for the purpose of any proceedings or by the terms of any contract, including the documentation of the funding instruments.”

      Sorry, Gary, but the only exception to the immunity they have given themselves is when they choose to waive that immunity. Where does it state in the treaty that if they step outside their frame of reference they lose that immunity? Whose legal system will be used to determine if they break a law? Your allegation that concerns about this clause are a red herring are apparently without foundation.

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  • Anyone who would believe anything fine Gael says would want their head examined. They told us nothing but lies to get into power, they told us lies about all the other treaties and they are telling us lies about this treaty as well.

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    • Hence why we need to vote yes. We get the politicians we deserve because we vote for people who are good at getting potholes filled or neighbours of the housing list. Our system does not reward people who work in the national interest.

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    • Why does that mean we need to vote Yes? Is it because by voting yes we are giving all our power away to Europe so we’ll have no need for all our waste of space politicians here and we can sack them and save millions??? I didn’t vote for these clowns, we need to have an election where the most appropriate person is elected for each ministerial position and let councillors worry about the pot-holes. Teachers for education, accountants for finance and so on.

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    • How u going to get this dream election? We have to deal with the current situation, not a fantasy one.

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    • If enough Irish people wanted something bad enough and they worked together hard enough to get it anything is possible. Who’s dream and fantasy would you rather work towards? The Irish people’s or merkels and co?

      But to honest Terry I don’t understand why you think it’s a dream or a fantasy to have the most suitable people appointed to each ministerial position, it makes perfect sense to me and couldn’t be more realistic!!
      It’s not going to happen today but it will sometime in the near future. Things can’t keep going the way they are. We shouldn’t be wasting money paying useless politicians that haven’t a clue about anything. We need people who can plan for the future and not just take it day by day and see what happens like our current crop of idiots are doing. They spent years focusing on getting into power then once they were in they didn’t have a clue what to do, well they know how to look after themselves and their friends, paying lump sums for old civil servants to retire and then employing them a week later, it’s sickening what’s happening to this country.

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    • I agree with much of what you say. We should not have to pay for uselessness. However, how do you see the current set of politicians being shifted to make real reforms? Going by the journal, the govment is vastly unpopular but the media polls say different. Many of us do not take life seriously enough to get a strong non political party movement for change going. Good luck if you want to start one.

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    • With that attitude Terry Its no wonder we keep getting more of the same. If i’m unhappy with the current Gov, which I am, I’ll voice my distrust and dis-satisfaction. Here, politics.ie, Boards, down the pub, with my mates and family and at home with the wife. I email the taoseach and TD and tell them that I think they are liars and traitors!! Because thats what concerned citizens do. If we fail to hold Gov’s to account and not complain, well then it will take your three decades for real reform and change and we will be left with ex school teachers who prefer to do whats worst for the citizens of this little green country. I’m voting No for numerous reasons!

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  • The winners: Self serving politicians and “personalities”.
    The losers: Taxpayers.

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  • The only real argument the ‘yes’ side has for not voting ‘no’ i access to the ESM, and it is a total red herring, a threat manufactured to blackmail and coerce us into doing what we’re told.

    We’re made of stronger stuff everyone.

    No to the blackmail
    No to the threats
    No to the lies
    Vote NO on the 31st

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    • Well until it was decided that Ireland would need a referendum it didn’t look like there’d be a need for second bailout. It was only after the referendum was announced and a yes vote appeared uncertain that people turned around and said that a second bail out might be needed. So that means “yes” secures something we might not have needed if we hadn’t been asked in the first place. The compact and the referendum have only added to people’s skittishness and uncertainty. That’s stability for you.

      The other factor which might cause a second bailout to be needed is of course Greece, but if Greece goes all sorts of things could also happen (Spain? Italy?) that might make the whole matter academic anyway.

      It’s as mad as.

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    • Damocles, did u really think we would not need a second bailout? The Maths speak for themselves. We are unlikely to be able to pay our way for a long time. Hoping for debt forgiveness is just that hoping. Even if we were to get a 50% write down, we would still struggle for the next decade.

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    • Well the reports prior to the referendum being suggested were all “No need for a second bailout”, I’m just looking at the timeline.

      Besides borrowing your way out of debt doesn’t seem all that sensible to me.

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    • even if we vote NO and we need another bailout we will get it,,,simple as, how many has Greece had and still they will not let it go, if a bailout was denied to Ireland then the system will just collapse……the problem is that when the plan for a single currency was implimente3d it did not contain any solutions as to countries defaulting in either isolation of Europe wide,,,,they just repeated the same mistake as with the Titanic,,,,,we dont need more lifeboats because it just wont sink,………..DOH!!!!

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    • John, so you want a bailout like the greeks got? The bailouts can take different forms. A country bailed out can be happy if the only interference is on the financial level. Ireland has been left alone as far a public service pay and social welfare budget are concerned. This did not happen in Greece. Better than we keep being seen as solidly pro-Europe. Roll on the thumbs down.

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  • I would advise everybody to go into their polling station on may 31st with a black biro and vote no, as we are being sold to the eu, which is wrong. We can stand on our own two feet, and go back to the punt, let’s see what happens when we threaten the eu, and leave their euro, they will do everything to make us stay, and give us funds, like Greece now is threatening to leave the euro and the eu are in a panic, because Greece wants to go back to the drachma. The yes side are saying that we won’t get funds if we don’t vote yes, well the eu is not going to let the euro fall apart and will do everything in their power to stop the contagion, so don’t believe the yes voters, and vote no.

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  • Are these polls designed to reflect public opinion or, as is often the case, to manipulate it?

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  • It’s all very well this government concentrating on foreign investment but those of us in the real domestic economy are being left to drown and are taking the brunt of austerity. We can’t take any more. Someone needs to stand up for Ireland. I’m voting no until they do. There is not a snowballs chance in hell we will be barred from funding.

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    • How can u say that, are not businesses being refused funds every day? There is no benign force that will provide funds. Look at Greece.

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    • Fagan's 22/05/12 #

      Look at Greece. Greece is screwed whether this gammy little treaty is passed or not. Same applies to Portugal, Italy, Spain. Maybe even add in France and Belgium to those. They have mass insolvent banks.

      What will also happen is that when Germany’s banks start having to reappraise and realistically book their investments, that they will need a bailout from Bonn and that is the end of Merkel and her party. That is what this is all about avoiding.

      Reply
  • a third of those who vote dont know what they are voting for??????….is this a movie?!!

    cos thats real scary!!!

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  • whether we vote yes or no, the banks aren’t going to suddenly start lending to business or anyone else for that matter! I agree that we are starting to look more and more like the united states of Germany! In the simple case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t-i won’t thanks all the same! And as for not running it again once the vote is cast, sure they’ll dress it up as something else, call it something else and keep running it until they get the answer they deem correct! Eh no….definitely no!

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  • Personally, although I’m from the North (have never voted SF and will never vote for SF btw – just in case people think I’m saying No because of party loyalty or something), I think that No is the only way to go here. It’s important to remember that this ESM fund will be pretty much free from any kind of democratic inquiry as to their actions, and that the terms and conditions of the agreement are actually subject to change – post ratification!!

    I feel that the Yes campaign is practical and keeps us grouped in with the EU so clearly the government think it’s the most secure route to go down. And I can see that point of view. Enticing more foreign business into Ireland because of stability is a long, slow road back to hopeful economic recovery. It is however, no guarantee that Ireland will ever fully recover. What it does make certain though, is Ireland’s enslavement (for wont of a better word) to the EU and more specifically, Germany.

    The Yes campaign’s main argument is that the future is unforeseen and it’s better to be allied than to go it alone or go into the unknown. But the future is unknown anyways, regardless! Who is to say in five years, there won’t be some other bump in the road which forces Ireland to dig itself in deeper with EU loans and obligations.

    It seems to me that the whole concept of the Euro and EU has been a marketing ploy on behalf of the Germans to exert control over Europe again. And although the rational part of me thinks that Ireland should opt for stability and hope that will stimulate the economy and hope that means jobs will increase and people will stop emigrating; a whole other part of me thinks that the unknown is a hell of a lot better option than being a German lap-dog for the next few centuries. No may bring us uncertainty but it means that we won’t be signed up to something sitting in the Constitution that is undemocratically run and subject to change. Someone in Europe has to put Germany in check! Even the French are getting sick of them at this point, so we know it’s getting dire.

    The radical in me wants Greece to leave, a No vote and a general sticking two-fingers up to the EU. It probably won’t happen.

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  • I’m voting no.

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  • Vote No ! Winning

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    • A no vote makes sense to me too. We’re being told a yes vote will be good for business but I don’t see how the public having less money to spend can be good for business. Good for rich business men and their Politician buddies perhaps but not for the vast majority of us who are the only ones who are really going to turn this country around.

      Reply
    • The Yes voter is quite…they know their greedy voice is a betrayal of our life and love…

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  • the arguement against austerity!

    wake up peoples, we have no money for anything else.

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    • When you have no money, and no one will lend you money, austerity is another word for reality.

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    • Its not a vote for or against austerity! we all know that things are going to be tough one way or the other. nor is it a vote to be in or out of the EU, but I dont want to be going to the mill so that i can make the Germans happy and still end up the same at the end of the day. The simple fact is that the economy cannot grow and work itself out of the hole its in unless something drastic is done. more cuts will not solve this problem. I believe the euro will go sooner or later. A yes to this treaty will mean that the EU will tell us how much we’re getting and how we are allowed to spend it! It wont mean future governments will budget properly. It will mean that they will be told how to spend the money to best suit the wider European Interests. I for one think that Ireland and only Ireland should be allowed to decide how to spend our money for the greatest benefit to our own people and that is why I’m voting NO! Whether we have or will have a government that can measure up to the task is an other debate entirely, but I dont believe that selling the car is the answer if you have a bad driver!!

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  • Nydon 22/05/12 #

    Still undecided but leaning towards the now traditional Irish approach of voting no first. Sure If things go downhill we can always do as suggested by John Bruton and beg to be allowed to vote again – if there’s anything left In the ESF at the time. It isn’t as if we have our dignity fully intact as things stand is it?

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  • Remember that all polls so far were taken before Richard Bruton’s famous gaffe on a second referendum. Also, there is a major discrepancy between the yes vote in the Red C sand Millward Browne, and this govt lost the Oireachtas Inquiries referendum despite a 78% support in the opinion polls. It’s all to play for.

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  • Damocles 22/05/12 #

    The problem is that what makes sense to the money men and politicians isn’t what makes sense to we humble taxpayers who’ll be left carrying the can if it all goes wrong.

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  • No one forced us to over borrowwhen money was freely available to buy huge houses you cant heat now have ostentatious weddings you will still be paying for in 5 years time holidays long over and clothes you cant wear because you cant afford to go out anymore half the country is on interest only mortgages so what happens when even that dries up?? Get real we need our european counterparts but we still think we are tigers without teeth sad but its the reality

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    • Speak for yourself there. I’m debt free with no mortgage and I’m still voting no! It would be absolutely insane to do other wise. We don’t need Europe to balance our books, we need a strong gov that will but FG missed there chance at the title.

      Reply
    • Scarr 22/05/12 #

      It’s a little early to be drinking. No one forced people to borrow that is true, no one forced the banks to lend recklessly either. I know for any loan I had to take out I had to fill in forms and provide proof of earnings, the bank would process these forms as part of their due diligence and presumably stress test certain loans, the way you put it, you could be forgiven for thinking that there was just a table of money where people could help themselves. Lenders have responsibility too. People live their lives according to a reasonable prospect of earnings somewhat maintaining, they do not live by the possibility of world economic collapse.

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    • I have no credit to my name yet I was forced to leave the country to secure a better life elsewhere. Your logic that we all brought this on ourselves couldn’t be more flawed. Voting No is the right thing to do as this government has done nothing for Ireland on the European stage. When debt that isn’t sovereign debt is written off then people should be more receptive.

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    • Ryan, in how many decades will we get a government that is radically different to the one we have now. My guess 2-3. Voting no is unlikely to bring it nearer. Assuming we are stuck with current politicians for quite a while, better to play their game.

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    • Scarr 22/05/12 #

      @ryan – we have a deficit in this country, it’s a deficit of decent politicians. All we have are a group of slimy, self important, institutionalised, gas-bags with delusions of adequacy who are quite frankly in over their heads. The people dont trust them. Where’s this reform we were supposed to get? We are in dire need of a new breed of party and politician. Stephen Donnelly is probably the only one I’d have faith in tbh.

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    • I’m with you on that issue Scarr. My point is really to reiterate the demise of an over bloated self serving party. The people who voted for FG, myself included were promised change, reform and a sense of new beginnings. FG has had the opportunity to tip this little country on its head and fix it, (we were all behind them) But true to what over bloated self serving parties do is renegade on those hopes and promises leaving a bitter distrust that will see the end of FG as a party.
      On a side issue those renegaded promises are still fresh when FG try and sweet talk the nation into voting yes. What they say can not be trusted and the people are wise to this. In regards to Europe, I’m not a big fan. It’s great in theory but theres always a looser and in this case its the PIIGS. The EU in my eyes can not continue as is. For it to fully work it needs harmonized tax, wages, cost of living, welfare etc which will inevitable be controlled (dictated) by Germany, who are the biggest country right at the centre. This is one step too far for me as an Irish guy. I don’t like the idea of a federal united states of Europe but that just me and that why I’m voting NO.

      @Terry Turner
      Read the above post as to why I would like out of the ‘game’ ! And wether or not voting no will bring down the current Gov, assuming they wont make the next election. Labour will pull out before then to save what little face they have left. Voting No will not bring it any closer, it will not let the sky fall and voting no will not bring down Europe, contrary to populist government spin. Though I am waiting for big Phill and Leo Madcar to start running through the city streets crying wolf again!!

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  • You’re already in the Fourth Reich.

    Even German commentators say things like “This looks less and less like a monetary union and much more like an empire”.

    But I prefer Greater German Permanent Austerity Sphere.

    For the reference, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_East_Asia_Co-Prosperity_Sphere

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  • Fagan's 22/05/12 #

    The Austrians are now coming on board with Germany and refusing to accept Eurobonds. Maintaining the charade of a currency union, that has no centralized borrowing function.

    and we are told that if we do not vote Yes, the world will fall in. It is such a pathetic joke, what ever way we vote is immaterial and the crisis will go on, until Eurobonds are in place, the ECB is a unrestrained lender of last resort to states and banks, until Germany changes its constitution to allow Eurobonds.

    This treaty is about appearing to act hard and tough in a crisis, but it is really about avoiding the real issues at hand. It is why Hillary Clinton called it a distraction.

    The treaty will pass here, probably 60/40. It will be a political death warrant for FG/FF/Lab. as it will be quickly seen as a sham.

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  • Amazing how our “clever” business folk talk about toothfairies and fantasy economics when they are proposing we sign up to a contract that’s not finalised. This very contract says we need to find €11 billion. This €11billion will have to be borrowed at interest, then paid into ESM and then borrowed again at interest! All I am left wondering is if all these fantastic business people think that makes financial sense, how in the name of good God are they still in business? Oh ya that’s right, they wouldn’t do it, but yet think we should because of sheer selfishness!

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  • All those so clever business people voting yes to the treaty, voting to tighten fiscal unity and they are on the ladder to ruin, the ecj can take the nesecary measures to correct our deficit if we’re not on target and the treaty also is making them above all legal reproach, something nobody has talked about? why? answerable to nobody. Good bye Corporation tax rate!!! I think the yes side are going to feel very duped within the year. Clowns.

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  • we have no money because we are being raped, stop the flow of money out and keep it here. Vote NO!

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  • Vote yes, this referendum is to ensure that future governments budget properly. The 10 years of ‘growth’ from ’97-’07 was fuelled by unsustainable credit encouraged by poor government budgetry policy which got us to where we are.
    Alternatively, maybe a no vote might be the medicine the country needs. Future interest rates on money we get fron the imf will be higher and conditions attached much more severe. Croke Park deal will be out the window. Pay rates in the public sector will be slashed as will numbers employed. Union leaders who have called for a no vote will be exposed for what they are when there members lose their jobs and entitlements, and hey presto we’ll have a sustainable economy again.

    I think I’ve convinced myself to vote no!!

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    • Future governments don’t need a treaty to budget properly. If it can be done with a treaty, it can be done without it. The constitution is no place for fiscal policy.

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    • Exactly my argument all along Tom

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    • I agree with you Tom. The problem is that budgeting should and could have been done proplerly for the last 15 years, but history show that it wasn’t. With regard to the constitution I agree also, however the problem here is the constitution also needs to be conpletely overhauled.

      The final piece of the jigsaw is to then completly change our electorial system. we need to elect polititions on a national level with the expertise and ability to run the country.

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  • Regardless of outcome of vote the people of Ireland will continue to be the losers .
    We have a Taoiseach who refuses to lead.

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  • Have I broken policy rules or why are none of my comments being shown?

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    • That’s strange. We had a technical glitch over the past few days which was stopping some comments from appearing, but it’s fixed now. Can you let me know how you tried to post the comment (e.g. through the Android app, the iPhone app, the main site) and I’ll let our tech team know.

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    • I’ve been using the pc, cleared cache and cookies and re logged in and still had the issue last night and his morning. Yet I just posted here so perhaps all is well again.
      Thanks for the quick reply Christine

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    • No hassle. Hopefully it’s fixed now but do throw me a mail (christine@thejournal.ie) if it happens again.

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  • Jerry 22/05/12 #

    Yes yes yes winning

    Reply

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