FG and the church should just take a flying leap of faith off Howth head …

lol Leila Jane!

Well, Bertie and Woods did buy indulgences using tax payers money when the sex abuse compensation deal was negotiated!

I assume that they are only boning the country for procreation?

Nah, for self re-creation. Pity that the only people they’ll impress with this move won’t be able to vote for them in ten years.

Actually Inda’s speech was a pack of lies, full of accusations that were not in the Cloyne Report .

The Vatican demolished it in their response. Our government couldn’t make any substantial response, other than saying it had a lot of big words in it they didn’t understand.

Oh dear Oliver do you truly believe that? If so there is nothing else for it but to have a creme egg and a glass of wine, really worked for me tonight.

Enda’s speech was a ploy . To get us all to think that he had our best interests at heart .While all the while he was planning our downfall,so his wealthy European masters could rape the benefits yes RAPE the benefits . We took our eyes off the ball .Now he is planning to reopen the embassy in the Vatican city …… Balderdash !

He counted on our Abhorence at the Cloyne report …. and used it to divert our attention.

Care to elaborate Oliver?

I was one of the first (I’d say ) to congratulate him and say well done ….Well I won’t be so easily fooled again .

Oliver is correct on this one. Enda’s speech was disingenuous and was unsubstantiated. Enda couldn’t back his claims when pushed. Our government acknowledged the Vatican’s response was correct by meekly by describing it as legalistic. Obviously strong words were needed in Enda’s speech, but the truth should not be sacrificed.

The contributors in this debate can be divided into two camps: those who are concerned with the welfare of the abuse victims and who are supportive or indifferent to a Papal visit.
And those who are primarily interested in secularising Ireland and realise that removing Catholic influence is more important than healing, renewal or and ultimately mutual beneficial relationships.

It is an odd stance by SF alright.

Maybe they have seen the light and will now follow the path of the true religion? What do you think, No? Nah me either, I think I’d go with cynicism.

Out of every party, i support the shinners so this is dissapointing as im a committed secularist

Sinn Fein are a party of Catholic nationalists.

Republican, they are not.

Be repulsed then!!

Would Hitler visiting Israel not cure the ill-feeling? Eh…

Yerra sure they might as well find something to do with their time and to allow them to claim their expenses…

and all his clergy

That’s religious persecution. Much as I hate what’s happened one of the tenets of this State *is* Freedom of Religion, and that’s to be defended.

Just ban religion from state affairs/interests then.

Colm, I did’nt suggest banning him as a religious leader but as a major contributor to child abuse.

Diversion tactics

LORD god damn it LORD!!!
I think I’m in the twilight zone tonight.

I think they are thumbing you down for taking the name of their God in Vain :)

How exactly does he heal? he isn’t a doctor is he? Oh that is right he is a Catholic pope so he has special powers, oh yes indeed. Hallelujah! Blessed are the cheesemakers……………………

I see the pope was reduced to tears after meeting victims of abuse that he helped to cover up. Was he crying because he was sorry or because the damages his organization would have to pay out for raping children in Malta?

He didn’t need to cry Joe because he had magically healed their hurt with his supreme popeness.

If you are interested in victims/survivors of abuse I admire your sense of justice….if your railing against the pope, because he is who he is, not only are you not helping them, you are mocking them and using them for your own ends. Priests violated children- fact; bishops covered it up-fact. High up guys Vatican delayed the process of justice and punishment – fact. But Benedict, as pope and cardinal, has done more than anyone to put this sorry mess right, that is fact not an opinion. Pull opinions apart; facts stand on their own.

@Condulmer, seriously? He has in his arse done anything without a cattle prod up his arse forcing him to do so. The cover up continues, the priests and bishops are still complicit in hiding abuse and the Vatican continues to show no remorse and only pay lip service to those they have irreparably.

I also have a problem with Benedict as a human being who continues to defend and stand behind an institution which is out of date and out of touch. This is the same guy who made a statement about condoms being ok for male prostitutes but not husbands & partners who may pass HIV onto their innocent wives, like seriously?

irreparably *damaged*

@emd: why is it in a country awash with condoms HIV and STD rates are soaring? Its the same in the developing world. The Catholic Church cant be blamed for at. As regards abuse; if guys like Magee actually did what the Pope said we would not be in the mess we are in. If you are aware of bishops/priests covering up; you be better report it. Get your stuff in order and head to the guards.

It’s great crack the way the thumbs people don’t do irony… :)

He’s not welcome, he should f*ck right off!

Dana is after hacking the site

oh Joe you are so funny, then again the wine probably helps with the hilarity :)

Yes it’s true I’m a Christian because my parents baptised me, and so are you probably. But my decision to follow Christ was my own as an adult and some of my siblings decided otherwise. Just as your decision appears to have taken you in another direction. I choose hope, truth and beauty. I hope you find these in your decision. And no I’m not smug or self-righteous, but I do live my Faith, and I love the Holy Father. I hope you preserved a good relationship with your blood father, and that you would be willing to defend him against false, if populous, accusations.

PJ, you are in denial if you think “…my decision to follow Christ was my own…”. Well what an amazing coincidence. You just happen to have brought up as a Christian and bingo that also happens to be the “correct” religion. Admit it, if you had been brought up in India by Hindus, you would be a Hindu. You were, as I already said, sucessfully brainwashed.

As far as i’m aware “hedonism”doesn’t bugger innocent little children and persistently try covert it up…

PJ, there are no gods you were successfully brainwashed.

As an atheist I view ratzinger as a short, prim, ancient person in heavy robes at the head of a foul institution that has visited much woe on our country. He can sod off.

Well said PJ, I wonder the same to be honest.

@ Cormac, I forgot everyone in the catholic church is guilty of these heinous crimes. I won’t respond negatively to hedonism if that is your belief as i wouldn’t like to offend you or anyone else.

Well done William, someone you believe to have a belief in something and you say he is brainwashed. Great call my friend. Were you ever told if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing at all.

Adam, if PJ wasn’t brainwashed how come he’s not say a Muslim or a Hindu? How come the VAST majority of religious people are the religion of their parents? Brainwashing. “..if you can’t say something nice..”, are you for real? Facts are neither nice nor not nice, they are just facts.

I don’t know what religion PJ is, he could be a buddhist for all I know. And the fact some most parents try to pass some kind of belief system to their children is that they feel it’s the right thing to do, the last time I checked it wasn’t illegal or brainwashing.

I am for real, you state that most facts are either nice or not nice. Completely agree when it’s a fact you are speaking about. But which fact may I ask did you relate to? Would it be the assumption you made that a person is brainwashed? Is that a fact! Or the fact there is no God, can you prove that one to me as well?

That was interesting. I speak English because my parents did, I’m brainwashed, woe is me. As for God, I’m happy with my position, one day we will both say “Oh Jesus”, but perhaps with a different inclination.
God bless.

Adam, you say “most parents try to pass on “some” belief system”. Most religiously indoctrinated parents try to pass on THE RELIGION they were indoctrinated into, irrespective of how idiotic it is. That is brainwashing.

What do you call telling a defenceless child many times daily from first thing in the morning, at home, in school, that God made the world? What do you call sending them to a school RUN BY the officers of that religion?

What do you call sending them to mass to listen to more nonsense at least once a week?

My parents and most parents of my parent’s generation in Ireland most definitely were non intellectual and most definitely did brain wash their children and yes it should be illegal.

I don’t have to prove your god doesn’t exist; you have to prove he does IF you want to put his “teachings” into the statue books. Can you prove that the 250,000 Hindu gods don’t exist? Do you believe they do? I don’t think you have thought about this much.

PJ, reply below. The website seems to have gone wonky.

I welcome Christ into my life every day. I will not and would never welcome this man as he has called me intrinsically evil as a gay man How dare he.

Of course the notion that being gay is evil is absurd. But because it’s absurd AND the bible does seem to denounce the gay life style, don’t you have a big problem being a Christian with that contradiction?

Among many arguments that the bible is just a series of books self selected to suit their Machiavellian purposes from a larger number by relatively primitive men, is that read in the knowledge that we now have of the universe, it’s chock full of contradictions about how reality actually is; Evolution, the creation of the Earth, the un-importance of the Earth (they’ve discovered a couple of thousand other planets now) and of mankind, being anti-gay, misogynist, the nature and causes of crime etc..

To call someone else foolish because they don’t agree with you is inappropriate. I know the Pope does not consider you evil if you are gay. If you engage in gay acts he will condemn the act. There are as many intellectuals who believe in God as who don’t.
In relation to the pedophile priests, the proportion in the priesthood is less than the proportion in the population overall. And yes much wrong and harm has been done, hut not by the Pope.

William you are very right that most parents pass on their belief system just like any parent would pass on what they believe to be true and right, nothing brainwashing about that.

What do i call when parents pass on the belief which they believe to be one of the most important things their child can learn. What do i call when a parent speaks to their child and brings them to mass to have hope in a life full of shit. (Quite idiotic as you have stated!) I call it good parenting and their right as a parent to bring that child up in faith (be it what ever religion). nothing brainwashing in the slightest. If you would like to bring your child up with the your beliefs be it whatever that’s your right as a parent. To be quite honest that statement is ridiculous. Of course a parent will pass on their values to their children.

i don’t understand the point about your parents generation being non intellectual. We are having an intellectual ( i hope) debate today in regards to your previous comments. About all religious people being brainwashed. Ever dawn on you to think that maybe your brainwashed?

And finally you were the person implying that “there are no gods”. I simply questioned your “facts” about there being no Gods and about being brainwashed. If you wish to make a statement out of the blue, i wish you would put evidence with that statement. I wasn’t the person coming on here saying there are god/gods. And who said anything about putting God into the “statue” book! That’s right no one again! You came up with that statement. if your talking about the constitution hes all over the place in it.

William you know you can make comments to most articles without the need for defamation of ones beliefs or insulting people? And there may be 250,000 Hindu Gods. but I am not saying they don’t exist. No quite the opposite, i respect Hindu, Muslim, Catholic, Buddhist and Atheist.

And before you reply with yet another rant, let me ask you this! Why are you talking to me as if I represent the Catholic Church? Am i even Catholic? As i did in previous comments i like to question mindless comments that are disrespectful to different race,ethnicity, cultures and beliefs.

To be honest my friend i don’t think you have thought much about this. It might be helpful for you to read back over your comments and see where you might have went a small bit off the mark.

All the best.

Adam do you not see the problem with your logic here. Are all religions equally true? They can’t be as they all contradict one another.

So the vast majority of people are the religion of their parents and therefore they are only religious AND in the religion of their parents/society because they were brainwashed. They are not as you claimed “brought up” or had their parents “pass their values”. They are not religious because it’s the truth, unless you think rocks contain spirits like the Shinto religion teaches.

It’s brainwashing because it’s not the same as teaching. Priests do not tell you that there is a hypothesis that there’s a god and give you the pro and con arguments. They tell small children that there is a god and it’s their god, that if they don’t follow that god they’ll burn in hell etc etc. I went to a Catholic school. I know the lies they tell.

Excellent news.

lol, good one!

lol, good one! :-D

lolz, good one! :-D

Absolute garbage!

Absolute crap!

I hope the old out of date, two-faced sod stays full-time away.

Correction: it was this dumb comment that I replied to, how is inviting the head of an organisation that raped thousands of children going to help heal the country? I couldn’t think of a more divisive thing to do. Also why are the shinners supporting this muppet Walsh? I would have thought they would be against wasting public money on religious circus!