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Dublin: 10 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

France and Germany in new plan to harmonise corporation tax – reports

Ireland looks likely to come under heavy pressure over our corporate tax rate, after details emerged of a new set of proposals from the EU power-brokers.

Merkel and Sarkozy at a press conference earlier this month
Merkel and Sarkozy at a press conference earlier this month
Image: Gero Breloer/AP/Press Association Images

THE CO-ORDINATION OF corporate tax rates between EU countries is among the key points of a new Franco-German plan for eurozone growth, according to reports.

The EU’s two major powers are also calling for the long-mooted ‘Tobin tax’ on financial transactions, the redirection of some EU bailout money, and greater tax harmonisation across the board.

According to EUobserver.com, the six-point set of proposals – due to be put to European leaders during a summit at the end of the month – includes a “common consolidated corporate tax base”.

In practice would mean all European countries would calculate corporate tax using the same formula.

Up to now, the Government has strongly resisted EU pressure to raise Ireland’s 12.5 per cent corporation tax rate, which is seen as a key attraction for multinational companies. French president Nicolas Sarkozy has reportedly suggested in the past that the interest rate on Ireland’s bailout could be reduced in return for a compromise on corporate tax.

The new revelations appear to vindicate claims by Fianna Fáil leader Micheál Martin, who said in December that new EU fiscal agreements would leave Ireland vulnerable on corporation tax.

The Daily Telegraph reports that the confidential plan calls for EU countries to “accelerate” the process of tax co-ordination as a way to aid growth across the eurozone, and says France and Germany plan to harmonise their own corporate tax rates to drive reform.

Martin: EU deal leaves Ireland vulnerable on corporation tax>

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Comments (93 Comments)

  • Colm 21/01/12 #

    They can f*ck off!

    Reply
  • Up to this Kenny has displayed himself to be utterly cowardly in his dealings with the French and Germans. This will however be the ultimate test…either he holds true to what he has been sayng all along or he’ll cave here to them. If we lose this coporation tax rate we’ll lose most fdi frm the States…guaranteed.

    Reply
  • Dear fg, labour and all the other mute governments throughout europe, can just one of ye ask the French and Germans why they think they run Europe all of a sudden. Spineless cowards bowing to two arrogant interfering bureaucrats.

    Reply
    • We are being taken over . Simples ……
      Austerity is just a way of putting us down and back in our boxes …
      Keep the very rich as power brokers and the rest of us idiots doing their bidding .
      I feel as if I have just woken up !!!

      Reply
    • I hope you had a good sleep Eileen. You’ll need plenty of energy now.

      Do you mean that you think this German/Franco thing mightn’t be as simple as it seems?

      Reply
    • Hi Réada
      In a word NO …. Not that simple … A lot more behind this than just Europe . America ? Chinese ?? But we MUST stand up to Europe first . Get out of the EU. Become independent self reliant and regain our self respect

      Reply
    • Yes Germany played along with the game while it suited them. But the markets have moved on. Germany and France now try to control the beast they helped feed but now it is too big for them to attempt to control. 

      Makes me laugh really because most of this money is just numbers on a computer screen – no gold to back it up. Can’t feel scared when you’re laughing!

      Reply
    • Can’t feel scared when you’re laughing ! My new motto . I hope you don’t mind .:)
      I am livid , however I feel better motivated now more than ever !

      Reply
    • Well don’t worry about it Eileen. I go from amused to fuming  too but it’s they are foolish really. Because money is only energy and cannot be owned as such. 

      Democratically elected governments are not in charge. We have to stop expecting them to act for us when they’re on the payroll so to speak. 

      The power is always with us, the people

      Reply
    • How extraordinary. Weren’t the Irish electorate promised by their Government that they possessed a magical veto? Were you not repeatedly reassured that Ireland’s corporation tax was unmitigatedly untouchable following the Lisbon Treaty? The No ‘lunatics’ and ‘Conspiracy Theorists were correct all along it seems. How splendid!

      Reply
    • Justdieter
      So as a non irish national as I so often hear you state , what would you do ? Or do you just like ‘winding’ things up?:)

      Réada
      I am going to continue what I do with a big knowing smile on my face and Wont register and Wont pay …..

      Reply
    • Hi Dieter. Next thing you’ll be talking about NWO. LOL. Don’t want to frighten the sleepy-heads. They can call it whatever they want as far as I’m concerned. The Markets are consuming themselves. Their bubble is about to burst.

      Reply
    • Its is Eileen Gabett, what a dainty lady you seem. So it seems today I am a ‘Non Irish National’, how enthralling. What a curious expression ‘Non Irish National’ The expression is a term used by the Irish Naturalisation & Immigration Service (INIS) to describe the residency status of people living in Ireland who are not Irish citizens or citizens of a country which belong to the European Economic area (EEA) Yet curiously you know nothing about me, only that I have said I am not Irish by birth. One should adopt a more generic term, perhaps I am a ‘migrant’ or a ‘resident’ or I might just be a naturalized Irish citizen. You asked what would I do? In your eyes am merely a ‘non Irish National’, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent Euyropean vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

      Reply
    • European* even. How embarrassing.

      Reply
    • You have a ‘nice ‘ day dieter…Too many ‘V’ words to be bovered !!

      Reply
    • Dieter is as Irish as he wants to be. You’re very welcome dieter. Less of the V’s though. Not victory time yet. :-)

      Reply
    • Touche! Another simple test passed, I am indeed surrounded by conspiracy theorists and those with a revolutionary nature, albeit confined to a screen..but it is a beginning. Look, see how many have opened their eyes in Ireland recently. This gives me hope and a warm fluffy feeling inside.

      Eileen, with all due respect people like you you bore me but I do admire that feisty heart of yours, be well x

      Reply
    • Aw Dieter
      and here I thought I made a new friend ! :)

      Reply
    • A pseudo friend, perhaps later…not now. Now you are, as am I, just a bore on a screen, pretending not to pay a household tax. You are feeling a sudden sense of patriotism, anger, frustration, foolishness, but I am curious about one thing. How long have you felt like this Eileen? Is it a recent phenomenon or were you always a lunatic like I and millions of other lunatics / conspiracy theorists mocked and ridiculed for having eyes that could see and minds that could think freely. Tell me, are you only suddenly Irish now?

      Reply
    • Demand a referendum on the upcoming treaty.
      Vote NO.
      Tell Merkosy and the bank bondholders to go f##k themselves.
      http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/call-for-a-referendum-on-the-esm-treaty/

      Reply
    • dieter….interesting name…
      curiosity got the better of me..
      dieter means “warrior of the people” , no?
      and the closest english equivalent is Derek..

      c’mon, tell the truth,
      its u Del-boy from the Brack isn’t it…
      aka “Rats from de Flats”

      sean, signed and emailed to everyone i know,
      good call, thanks

      eileen, im right with you on
      Don’t Register and Won’t Pay

      Time to send a message loud and clear.

      Reply
    • They always ran it, it is just in a very public way now.

      Reply
    • Not just them Tim. To be perfectly honest I’d chose them to those that actually are. Feic that but true

      Reply
  • Colm has hit the nail on the head.

    Reply
  • Feck off with yis.

    Reply
  • Ciaro 21/01/12 #

    My prediction for Ireland .. No concession on debt, continuous economic contraction and shrinking tax returns. Increasing interest payments on new debt coupled with old debt maturing will lead to bailout 2.
    Bailout 2 will come with interest rates of 1% and a 35 year term… however this will be dependent on Irish acceptance of whatever the fuck Germany and France propose. We will become an agricultural nation of 3 million people, ensuing an ample food supply for Europe.

    Reply
  • …and so it has begun. Plea to the Irish government – stand up for your people.

    Reply
  • I can think of nothing else that could potentially rouse us into action. It is the one button they do not want to press. We are a laid back people. But this issue is nearly a point of principal and there is the blatant sense of us being bullied. We absolutely need to stand up to these guys.

    Reply
  • Hmmm Election year in Franco/Germania!

    Reply
    • That’s what they are playing to. However – who died & voted them leaders of the EU ? We are either in this together as equals or we are not. Seems some EU states ( 2 ) are more equal than others. Let’s not forget why we are here. The absolute failure of our past Govts to govern & the complete failure of the then opposition to hold the then Govts to account on our behalf.

      Reply
  • If the government bows to this, they might as well hand in their resignations.

    Reply
  • I’m sorry but for me this is a no go area for me and I hope it is for the government too!

    Will this be the straw that breaks the donkeys back? I think it will be.

    Reply
  • I just love the word “harmonise”, damn, soon they will be “harmonizing” everyone’s wages and before you know it, BOOM, animal farm :-)

    Reply
  • Enda Kenny remember this. The captain goes down with his ship. If you permit this, if you permit your nation to be destroyed by another, you are a traitor. Corporation tax is our nations lifeline, our jobs & our future. If you remove that, you will be removed. Many say the Irish are sheep & will never revolt. This is the 1 thing to prove them wrong. Don’t force our hand.

    Reply
    • Winston 22/01/12 #

      It’d be funny to see a protest to keep corporation tax down… It’d be like an anti-#Occupy movement…

      Business suits, blackberry’s and Starbucks coffee, marching through the IFSC ….

      Bring. It. On!

      Reply
  • Either we have legal gaurantees to prevent this under Lisbon 2 or we don’t. If the gaurantees are legally binding this cannot go ahead without a new treaty and a referendum. If the guarantees are not legally binding then Lisbon 2 was a hoax, so we revert to Lisbon 1, which was rejected by the Irish people.

    Reply
  • pagan 21/01/12 #

    This two teir europe is getting closer.So Enda,Is it time to stand up to europe or leave the euro;go back to the punt and devalue..

    Reply
  • Give up sarkel….ye pair of greedy bitches!!! We will not change!!!

    Reply
  • Would ye ever cop on. Do not swollow this German/Franco thing. The enemy is big money. European too but mainly USA and Russia.

    You don’t have to be German to have German bonds. Ask Michael Noonan!!!

    Reply
    • Yes right. Sarkozy is playing to US capital when trying to screw Ireland for the corporate tax increase. One can read all sorts of nonsense here.

      Reply
    • Well Dom, without answers or well meaning intentions what’s one to conclude? I’m sure, like most people you saw the Vin Brown Troika clip. If not I attach a link for your convience:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vo6VzQddi0

      Reply
    • The government are not telling us anything . What are we to think ?
      Enda Kenny bought time with his ”State of the Nation” address,
      to delay us from asking questions.All the Ministers are saying Nothing,
      unless it is paying lip service to a minor issue.

      Reply
    • Ah yes, the MEP won’t say why Irish are forced to pay back Anglo debts so it must be the US capital. I can see the logic. Sarkozy and Merkel are puppets for the US hedge funds. We know nothing so this is the only logical thing to assume. Jezus, it ain’t easy living with paranoia.

      Reply
    • Ah Dom …. Don’t be such a spoilsport !
      What is your take on it ? Seriously !

      Reply
    • As far as tax harmonisation is concerned, it should be fairly obvious. Germany and France are high-tax economies and irish (mostly incorrectly perceived) low-tax economy has been getting up their noses for quite a while. The arrogance of our leaders during boom years didn’t help so now Merkozy have their 5 minutes and a golden opportunity to screw us out of our competitive advantage at least as far as the corporate tax is concerned. The US capital has nothing to gain from an increased IRish corporate tax rate, in fact the opposite is true.

      Now, if you were talking about the interests of the US capital being protected during the bailout negotiations, that is a different story. The IMF walked into town with healthy free-market attitude and the bondholder burning ideas. However, boyz from ECB were against and then Tim Geithner weighted in behind ECB and the IMF lost. Indeed when the bailout took place the interest of the US capital was protected but there is no conspiracy there, Geithner move is well known and documented.

      Reply
    • Thanks Dom.
      That is exactly as I see it. You have said it better than I could . Geitner protecting his own assets just as we should be doing and should have done all along . You are right about the arrogance of our leaders during the boom times getting up the noses of the French and Germans….. They didn’t like to see our ”little” island rising in stature…
      Badly managed then and badly managed now.
      Merkle / sarkozy are not puppets for American hedge funds, But they have their eyes on the bigger picture the way we should have had but didn’t. The golden circle in Irish banking have destroyed us ..They have pushed us back a hundred years . The haves and the have nots /

      Reply
    • Dom. There is no conspiracy theory anymore. The truth is as plain as the nose on one’s face.

      Reply
    • Spot on Dom.
      Somewhere between the stuttering of Vincent Brown and the waffle from the top table the truth was lying naked on the floor!

      Reply
    • I have to sy this to get rid of it ……
      Your analogy (not sure if spelling is correct)
      there John just gave me an awful vision of an ex taoiseach
      in a less than dignified position with no where to hide …..

      Reply
    • Everyone should remember Geithner’s whistle stop visit of Germany and France before the last EU summit!

      Reply
    • Eileen!
      Are you in some way trying to suggest that Bertie might be found to be missing his underpants when the findings of the Mahon Tribunal come out in the next week or so? How bold are you!

      Reply
    • John we are living in exciting times ….
      Why stop now ?
      I told you I had to get rid of that thought …and yes I suppose it is quite bold of me
      to suggest that we may just get to see what Bertie ( and Co) is made of
      when the Mahon tribunal report does come out ..:)

      Reply
    • Just to share another image. BERTIE’S BLOOMERS! Can’t wait to be around on that particular wash day. Bold detergent won’t shift some of those stains!

      Reply
  • Brussels, keep your nose out of our business! Sure you don’t even drive on the correct side of the road!

    Reply
  • We have always had a dislike towards the British but those stuck up gits who think they have absolute power would not be so pompous if the Brits were involved.
    Come on Cameron,do us all a favour and put some manners on those 2 muppets.

    Reply
  • European Union What European union.Tear up all the treaty’s and start again or better still stay out on our own. When they sign these so called treaty’s do they read the small print. When Ireland says no once It should be respected not coming back with an amended treaty. NO MEANS NO.

    Reply
  • And just wait for it boys and girls! I guarantee you that a dedicated EU income tax is on its way! It will start nice and easy 1-3% or so and “only for the rich” (you have to propose it that way to get it passed). And then, 30 years later, It’s gonna be something like 20-30% and even the barely working class will pay it. Just look at the history of the U.S. federal income tax history and you will catch the drift. Get the fu*k out of EU while you still can.

    Reply
  • They drew the final straw with me long ago, this is the final final straw and where are the balls of our lot and other EU-Govts? Have they all being castrated at birth? ANGRIER THAN EVER!

    Reply
  • Yes, let’s build the ultimate nanny state where life sucks equally for everyone! Give me more of this EU ice cream! What a beauty! Who needs sovereignty when you have a set of fantastic central planners in Brussels! Sh*t, I have got to make sure I get out of this lovely utopia before they stop letting people leave this great land of opportunity. You never know, in the USSR they shot you dead if you tried to leave the great Marxist dream.

    Reply
  • Banking guarantee is what got us into this mess (thanks Peter Sutherland) all of these private banks should have been left to fail. With the threat to our corporation tax while it keeps US corporations in Ireland it also doesn’t help Irish employees with many corporations making record profits while blaming the economy for no wage increases. While I agree there should be no outside interference in are own taxing system this is not the only tax that eu want. Have people forgot about property tax, water tax, VAT and pension levys. These are all taxes that the troika wanted so why are we not fighting them and calling for the government to help us fight them. I think the corporations will go when it suits them although I don’t think there is enough room in Bermuda for manufacturing or office space. Fianna fail’s Michael Martin new this was coming because it is part of the long term European plan. The water charge should be up and running by 2015 a property valuation service is being set up by the estate agents of Ireland. So that’s the builders and the estate agents sorted out. What about the people oh we just got to pay for everything. Thanks fianna fail, fianna Gael, labour you really know how to run a country into the ground.

    Reply
    • Was it Olllie Rehn, with glee in his eyes, saying that Ireland will no longer be a low tax country (as it ever truly were) and will become ‘normal’ in the context of Europe. Like we were sick and now we’re healed.

      Reply
  • Finally all this is coming to light, we knew about this 2 years ago & only now it’s happening. It’s time that people stopped listening to the lies of our government & just for once unite under a common purpose to stop the treat of being governed by non irish politicians.Once governments no longer have total economic or political control over there country then that country is no longer a sovereign country. We are being taken over thats a fact.so call that conspiracy or whatever but it’s happening.

    Reply
  • the french and germans proposals should be put where they belong in a bin and the other european governments need to stand up for their people. We are better off out of this car crash.

    Reply
  • I did not vote in our present government but i am asking them now not only to save our country but also Europe. We have past the point of no return. Stop these super states within the eu & gather support to remove them from the eu if they continue to bully smaller states. France & Germany are not the eu. Ask them to leave.

    Reply
  • Down with this sort of thing! Careful now!

    Reply
  • My oh my, all of those who mocked and ridiculed those who opposed the EU fascist state and European Treaties have now been turned. Amusing yes, satisfying yes, predictable yes, all of this and more but it also brings hope. The blind and ignorant have now sight and wisdom. Stand up !

    Reply
  • You don’t need a crystal ball to see where this is all headed. United States of Europe, can’t wait. Consolidated European Army, Young Irish men dying in Manufacture-Evil-istant, as we all jingling “U.S.E!, U.S.E!”.

    Reply
  • Seems a lot of people on here, who so often call this and the previous Government LIARS, are suddenly believing them on this. Nothing will happen if they raise the corporation tax by a percent or two. These companies make billions profit every year. If we’re all having bailout this economy, why don’t the multinationals get hit also?

    Reply
    • If we lose taxation sovereignty on this scale, we’ll never get it back. Germany and France are acting in their own interest, protecting their financial institutions. This isn’t a partnership Europe, it’s a bullying imperial Europe. France and Germany rule Europe. We’ve got to put a stop to this. If its tax change, then it’s referendum, we say no, they start to threaten us – we tell them to go fuck themselves for all eternity, we run the referendum again we say no more emphatically, they understand when they’ve been told to fuck off, and they fuck off.

      Jesus but I truly hate sarkozy. What a vain preening dick that man is.

      Reply
    • I thoroughly agree that we shouldn’t bend to the whim of the Franco-German pact that isn’t helping Europe in anyway. Sarkozy has made this a personnel vendetta to raise out corpo tax in line with Frances (33%). This would cripple us. But to raise it to 13.5-14% certainly wouldn’t harm anyone and could raise the tax income take by a couple of billion!

      Reply
  • The moment we shift our corporation tax, even by 1%, we lose our credibility for long term static tax.
    It is our only market advantage !!!

    We are located on an island at the extreme periphery of Europe. We cannot just drive our goods to the next country like in France/Germany. We have to absorb the extra costs&delay of shipping/flying the goods plus the associated logistics.

    Tax harmonization doesn’t level the playing field; it merely slopes it against us.

    Reply
  • Ardo Ci 21/01/12 #

    It’s not just going to go away. They will have their pound of flesh and now that Ireland is a German principality we’ll huff and puff sure but be as compliant with this as we have been with everything else. US co’s will accept the tax levelling that Ireland will have to employ but here’s what will happen…they will get the difference back in a roundabout way! I guarantee see.

    Reply
  • We took their money over the years and our government lived like kings. Then they borrowed to maintain the croke park deal for all their relatives and now they continue to cut welfare to the special needs teachers etc etc. I hope the trioca stay for a few more years and that their is tax harmonisation as we need to start surviving on our our sweat and toil. There are no easy ways to make money – back to hard work.

    Reply
  • 21/01/12 #

    This completely vindicates Fianna F

    Reply

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