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Dublin: 15 °C Sunday 19 May, 2013

Explainer: What’s on the table in the Croke Park talks?

The government is seeking additional savings from the public sector, setting it on a collision course with unions. Here’s what it’s all about…

Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin is targeting €1 billion in additional savings from the public sector.
Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin is targeting €1 billion in additional savings from the public sector.
Image: Mark Stedman/Photocall Ireland

THERE ARE JUST ten days to go until the government’s self-imposed deadline to reach a deal with public sector unions on a successor to the Croke Park Agreement.

Over the next few days you are likely to hear government ministers talk about the need to get efficiencies and reduce the cost of running the public service while unions defend their members’ interests and say they can’t take any more cuts to pay and resources.

Three years ago the government of the day made an agreement with unions that the public sector would “change the way it does business” and in return there would be no reductions in pay rates or compulsory redundancies.

As is often said, this has ensured industrial peace on our streets and none of the kind of scenes we’ve had in Greece where public sector workers have gone on strike leading to services grinding to a halt and violence as protesters clashed with police.

In the first two years of its existence the Croke Park Agreement saved €810 million in year one and €678 million in year two - a total of €1.5 billion.

Croke Park II

Now as the four-year deal starts to reach its conclusion the current government, which did not negotiate this deal but has broadly supported it, is seeking to negotiate a successor, targeting a total of €1 billion in additional savings over the next three years.

This figure breaks down like this:

  • In health it wants to save €420 million which includes job cuts
  • In education it wants to save €350 million including scaling back the €127 million spent on supervision and substitution payments
  • It wants €60 million of savings from the gardaí
  • In local government it is looking at saving €90 million primarily from the reform of local government
  • And in the civil service it is targeting €120 million in savings.

Source: Government figures/The Week in Politics.

These figures amount to just over €1 billion and include €300 million in savings this year.

Although direct, core pay cuts are not on the table the issue of premium payments for Saturday and Sunday working, overtime and longer working hours are just some of the areas being targeted by government along with pay cuts for the high-paid and some incremental pay increases.

Cuts in these areas will more than likely mean that public sector workers will take home less pay then they would under current arrangements and unions’ argument is that their members have had enough financial pain already.

The government is seeking to introduce a longer working week in the public service and standardise the working day so as that there is no overtime payments for staff who work between 6pm and 8pm.

For gardaí, we learned from a leaked document earlier this month that a standard working day would be 8am to 8pm and allowances for working Saturday would be cut, so as it would be a normal working day like Monday to Friday.

The premium payment for Sunday working would be reduced from double time to time-and-a-half.

The government is also said to be targeting pay cuts for staff earning more than €100,000 while those on over €65,000 would be asked to ‘take a step back’ on the increment scale.

What’s driving all this?

Last month a leaked document from the European Commission outlined the Troika – that’s the EU, the IMF and the ECB – view that “all options should be kept on the table”.

The Troika believes there should be “additional productivity reforms” which specifically include “the number of hours worked” but more than that it says that “reductions in allowances and salary scales for some categories of workers should be considered”.

This is why the government is going after those at the higher-end of the pay scale with a reluctance to go after so-called core pay for low and middle income workers.

But ultimately changes to working hours and premium payments will hit many if not all workers particularly those working in emergency services which is why nurses, firefighters, gardaí and prison officers are particularly aggrieved by the latest developments in the talks.

Under the banner of the 24/7 Frontline Alliance – representing around 70,000 workers – they are gathering in Tallaght tonight to rally against further cuts to their pay.

The alliance’s argument is that these proposed cuts disproportionately impact frontline emergency workers who are after all the most likely to be working odd hours and at weekends.

Underlining their unhappiness with the government’s stated position, gardaí having already withdrawn from the negotiations.

What unions want

But it’s not only emergency services workers who are aggrieved. We know that the Teachers’ Union of Ireland was last week signalling it could pull out of the talks as the government targets supervision and substitution payments, increments and allowances.

Allowances are a touchy subject as we know. The unions’ argument is that they are part of core pay which does hold some weight but others take a more sceptical view of, for example, the ‘dealing with post’ allowance that workers at the Chester Beatty Library in Dublin are entitled to.

Aside from the obvious grievances of individual unions for their members working in particular sectors, as a whole the public sector unions want management to deal with an emerging two-tier pay arrangement.

This is the disparity between the pay to new recruits in the public sector and those locked-in to more lucrative pay arrangements that date back to the boom years or at least the years when there wasn’t a gaping deficit of €15 billion in the public finances.

Public sector unions also want an increase in the amount of income that is exempt from pension levy. Currently the first €15,000 that a worker earns is exempt but unions want this increased.

The government says it wants to achieve the savings it is targeting in a fair and equitable way.

Unions argue there is nothing fair and equitable about targeting their pay, resources and pensions when many are already suffering as a result of the general economic downturn, the high rate of unemployment which could affect family members and the growing mortgage arrears crisis.

All of which means that agreement is far from certain and the government’s nuclear option of legislating for automatic, across the board pay cuts for public sector workers cannot be ruled out.

Read: Croke Park talks on public sector pay and reform to continue

In numbers: How much government spending is protected under Croke Park?

Read next:

Comments (75 Comments)

  • Hugh — We could do without that close-up of Howlin!

    Reply
  • Burning unguaranteed bondholders – not on the table
    A third rate of tax on high earners – not on the table
    Properly enforcing our low corporate tax rate – not on the table
    The government sticking to its own pay cap – not on the table
    Demanding a writedown of the illegal promissory notes – not on the table

    Hitting public sector workers again, 70% of whom earn less than the average industrial wage, and who have already seen their pay cut by 15% – on the table

    Welcome to governance fine gael style. Protect the rich and the european project at all cost.

    Reply
  • Four years ago the public sector was being slated by the media and the general public. I’m glad to see people have become too see what the real problem is in this country. The banks and the debts that are being imposed on the people of Ireland.

    Reply
  • DM 18/02/13 #

    The frontline workers need to distance themselves from Croke Park that has put them in the firing line for cuts because it is to protects the overpaid middle & senior management and over staffed administration / HR Depts.

    The management incompetence of the Goverment and Civil Service is laughable…. Can they not do their job and priortise cuts;

    1)Stop paying Interest and capital on private debts that have not been accpeted as soverign by the citizens of that state. If these have to be paid please have a referrendum and allow the citizens of that country to decide. Also when discussing how the ECB is governed by laws, rules and regulations, Please identify the law, rule or regulation that allows private debts to be forced upon a soverign state?

    2)Reduce the obscene and unwarranted grades of pay, perks and pensions for middle and senior management in civil service and introduce mandaoary redundencies for administration / HRstaff that are not required. This also includes our Politicians who need to show the smallest bit of leadership and abolish unvouched expenses and turning up for work allowances at a minimum!

    3)All State funded pensions are to be capped at 60k and you are only entitled to ONE, regardless of previous role, teacher, politician, quango, senate etc.

    4)No more early civil service or political retirement packages .If it is on a medical condition, you can retire on the state pension and the civil service rates only kicks in at the full retirement age. This also applies to Politicians.It is obscene that the Public service and Politicians deem that they are entitled to early retirement payout when they are not allowed in the Private sector. Who made that rule?

    5)Non Nationals are entitled to 6 months of benefits and then either return to work or sorry but we cannot support non nationals indefinatley on social welfare. For everyone that will comment on EU rules, please see how spain etc only provide 6 months benefits and still comply with EU regulations?

    6) Abolish all guangos and state boards that are stuffed with political cronies on a jolly to get paid from the state. Any quango or state board that needs staff or members please have an open recruitment drive with agreed rates of expenses, only!

    7) The waste and misappropriation of state funds should be investigated and those that benefitted should refund the state either directly or arrange a direct debit from their salary until repaid. The expenses and junkets enjoyed in the likes of FAS and the forgotten about SIPTU slush fund would be a great place to start.

    If the above are tackled and savings are still required then negotiate what is needed from Front Line Service.

    If you target the frontline services before sorting out the above then its is just a typical Irish solution to an Irish problem i.e incompetence and cowardice as the powers that be are only interested in feathering there own nest and the cuts are for the everyone else i.e The Peasents….

    PS – Why are our unions not demanding the above issues are addressed prior to cutting front line services ?? Oops i forgot there pay is probably linked to the middle and senior management pay grades and then there was those pesky junkets….

    Reply
  • pg 18/02/13 #

    The Govt can’t keep going back to the front line workers to balance the books… Average 12.7% pay cut already coupled with the pension levy and USC… Is this does happen,along with more proposed children’s allowance cuts ( it’s not the children’s fault ) public sector will default on mortgages if they already haven’t .. Creating a bigger mess..

    Reply
  • It seems there’s a populist demand led by the likes of the Indo to cut public sector pay to ‘slave wage’ levels because we all know that nurses, gardaí, fire fighters, doctors etc will all work for free! I presume once the pay cuts are implemented the banks will reduce the mortgages for public servants?

    Reply
    • Do you think public servants are the only people who cant afford there mortgages? what a rediculous comment to make. Either public and private stand up together or fall divided. And unfortunitly there is a huge divide now.

      Reply
    • @Ray Prior. I agree with you 100% Ray. The unfortunate reality is that this divide is being driven by those in the private sector, employers and investors, who will use any further reduction in public sector pay now, as the basis for further reduction in private sector pay next year. It’s a dirty vicious circle of greed and inequity.

      Reply
    • I did not mention private sector workers in my comment as this article is about public servants Ray. Your aggression is inappropriate

      Reply
    • I did not mention private sector workers in my comment as this article is about public servants Ray. Your aggression is inappropriate and misplaced.

      Reply
    • @ Ray. Why would the private stand beside tge public? Public sector pay levels sky rocketed because they were based on private sector growth which benefited the country. Now the private sector has slumped the public no longer want to be benchmarked. How convenient. And you want private sector support. Get a grip son.

      Reply
    • Do your homework before coming on here and making idiotic,ignorant and general trolling statements

      Reply
    • We really should all stop buying Irish newspapers and listening/watching to the RTE shower ….all the media support government. Let’s all refuse to pay TV licence….listen to the howls when their fat salaries are curbed !

      Reply
    • Simon I actually agree with you 100% believe it or not, Eastpoints original point stated “I presume once the pay cuts are implemented the banks will reduce the mortgages for public servants?” Well believe it or not theres a hell of a lot of people out there struggling to pay there mortgages, its not just the poor public service.

      Reply
    • @eastpoint Eastpoint my comment was not ment to be aggressive towards you and if it offended you im sorry, was just stating everyone is suffering not just the one sector who have huge unions to back them.

      Reply
    • Pablo 18/02/13 #

      Your right about the indo. Don’t understand why the unions don’t suggest a boycott of same to their members. I always felt the Sunday Indo to be completely lopsided in the views of its writers, especially one guy Daniel sometime or other. A lapdog to IBEC.

      Reply
  • Only way to resolve it is to walkout…we need a general strike…shut the country down…then they will listen.

    Reply
    • Put this on the table. Tell them you want ‘Out of the Bailout’. The same Banksters have ‘invested’ in Ireland again, because they were rewarded for their theft by the state, This is the time to Hit them. We have got the money back, so Hit them and Hit Hard. They have reinvested their ill gotten gains and the Debt is now being passed on to future generations. Hit them Now. We have got the money back. Keep it. Tell them, “The Buck stops here”. Let them take a hike over the financial cliff.
      Hit them now, or moan and complain for the rest of your lives, and your childrens and grandchildrens lives. Everyone phone your T.D. and Union representative and tell them you want Out of the Bailout.
      And if they say, ‘We must honour our commitments’, tell them “Yes”. “Honour your commitments to God and the country you are supposed to serve”.

      Reply
    • Bloody hell! I didn’t know God was involved in this.

      Reply
    • OMG which god ? Zeus, Apollo, Thor ??

      Reply
    • That’d be the God that inspired our governments to keep borrowing at exorbitant interest rates for the last 4 years to overpay our public service wages. It’s like they are driving a car while covering their eyes, it is bound to end in tears.

      Reply
  • Whats in the table?

    Vasaline for public workers cause there being rode.

    Reply
    • @ Sean,

      Are you in Education sector perhaps ???

      Reply
    • JayK 18/02/13 #

      That’s unpossible.

      Reply
    • No Josh. Im not in education.
      Classic profile picture! !!!

      Spock exclaiming live long and prosper. Maybe he should be saying live long work hard get paid piss poor, struggle to live day to day, be massive arrears with mortgage while your bank haunts you and bend over and be thankful you have a job
      Ps when leaving for your 50 mile commute to work to do a 12 hour shift wave at your social welfare neighbours who have a house for nothing, drive a better car than you and go on holiday’s every few months.

      Ah well thats what he’d be saying to me.
      Thanks for your interest Josh.

      Reply
  • Croke Park simply allows the overpaid and unproductive to hide behind frontline workers. In my opinion, and before anyone asks I’m a private sector worker and have been for 22 years, Gardai, nurses, firemen etc. should walk away from this and negotiate separately. The beards at the table do not represent you but rather their own pay and perks. Essentially this is two wolves and a lamb arguing over what’s for dinner. Don’t accept it.

    Reply
  • Hold on there while I bend over some more….

    Reply
  • 12 hour day is not on. That could be a 15 hour day for some people who commute long distances. Cant see the childcare facility staying open till 9pm.

    Reply
  • Apparently in education, they want to abolish payments of Supervision and Substitution and write it into contracts that all teachers do it as part of their contract. They also want teachers to take an extra hour of class contact time per week and freeze increments. Any increase in class contact time is incredulous. Irish teachers already teach over 130 hours a year over the OECD average. It will also lead to bigger class sizes as it will push non-permanent teachers out of a job. There have already been over 3,000 job losses in education since 2008. That extra hour class contact will also, in real terms, translate to an extra three hours a week in work if you include preparation and evaluation of that extra hour contact time. Whatever else Irish teachers accept, the line should be drawn at further class contact time and further job losses.

    Reply
    • They are driving the non-permanent and newly qualified (NQTs) onto the dole and out of the country. At least the long slog to find four hours here and four hours there would be over. If they do find a position it is on 30% less than their colleagues but the chances of that happening are slim to none. So no savings there.
      The no subbing rule could cut around six non-permanent teachers and NQTs from a school of a 1000 and these sometimes can be the most innovative and motivational teachers out there.
      Would 1% paycut across the board have let jobless teachers find work? It certainly would and the extra hours and climbing class numbers would not be an issue.
      The Unions will have no problem selling out the non-permanent and newly qualified. They were/are not in the same schools, colleges and on the same boards as the young teachers. They will shield their drinking buddies! Wait a ten years though. They won’t be getting their 400euro annual slush fund addition from any new teacher. What would be the point. Having no union would be just as beneficial.

      Reply
  • Its time we stood together in the public sector, give a date of 2 months or so and if the government don’t fall back from the victimization of public sector workers.PULL THE PLUG and hit the street.See how the country copes with no schools no dole payments, no 999 services, no courts no airport as customs are out etc. It will last less than a day
    #frontlinealliance

    Reply
    • That’s all fine and dandy, but CPII is apparently to be signed, sealed and delivered by the end of the month.
      2 months is way too far away!

      Reply
    • So it’s u against the country Mark, u need the support if your fellow citizens.

      So public versus private and around & around we go. Playing right into the hands of those who manipulate you, very obvious from above that we are far away from any type of unity while small minds look for somebody else to blame.

      Wake up!!

      Reply
  • Why aren’t the government looking at the real area that needs cutting first, like public sector mileage ? I work as a nurse and as a one off had to go to a meeting in another county and for driving less than 3 hours each way to a meeting where I had a lovely relaxing day I made 240e for petrol expenses nearly double what I take home for working nearly 13 hours ! Now how crazy is that. There is a certain level in the public sector that spend a lot of time going to meetings and this kind of pay out is wrong. Why should anyone sitting in a car make double what I make doing exhausting work for simply driving? This is on top of their daily wage as well . Now this is waste that can and should be cut but it is all kept very quiet as the reimbursement is so good. What about instead, all of these people staying in their place of work and using teleconferences like the private and importantly profitable sector do ? Instead of loosing staff for a whole day they are gone for am hour to a conference room. The front line workers have no more money to give and life is too short to work as hard as we do for a wage that no longer affords anything but paying bills bit at least now we can pay bills any more cuts and we wont be able to.As I have said before let anyone come work beside us for a week and see what real exhaustion feels like.

    Reply
  • This Government is not listening to its people and it will be its downfall shortly. We are not its subjects to pile more and more misery on. Empty premises all over the country, 15% unemployment,mass emigration,frontline services getting it in the neck,broken promises,piling more debt upon debt which we were not even consulted about,domestic economy in the toilet…..sorry have to go its time for tea.Tomorrow is another day……of the same shite!!!!!

    Reply
  • Couldn’t we just hand the whole sorry mess back to the British?

    Reply
  • Put this on the table. Tell them you want ‘Out of the Bailout’. The same Banksters have ‘invested’ in Ireland again, because they were rewarded for their theft by the state, This is the time to Hit them. We have got the money back, so Hit them and Hit Hard. They have reinvested their ill gotten gains and the Debt is now being passed on to future generations. Hit them Now. We have got the money back. Keep it. Tell them, “The Buck stops here”. Let them take a hike over the financial cliff.
    Hit them now, or moan and complain for the rest of your lives, and your childrens and grandchildrens lives. Everyone phone your T.D. and Union representative and tell them you want Out of the Bailout.
    And if they say, ‘We must honour our commitments’, tell them “Yes”. “Honour your commitments to God and the country you are supposed to serve”.

    Reply
  • A welcome start would be to stop referring to the talks by using ‘Croke Park’ or ‘Croke Park II’ – the new talks aren’t even taking place there.

    Reply
  • What allowances do the partners or children of people working for the government get?

    Reply
  • If we take the entire government budget what percentage are the croke park savings?

    Reply
  • Would the government not lead by examble by cutting their benifits in half and also taking a good size pay cut.
    At least if people saw this they may get behind the politicans.
    Lets stop this crap they are dishing out thtat the money is not there,
    It is not there lead the way taking a major cut.

    Reply
  • I’ll tell ya exactly what’ll be on the table…probably some cups and saucers for tea, coffee and biscuits. Along with some glasses and bottles of still and sparkling water!!!!!

    Reply
  • What allowances do the partners or children of people working for the government ?

    Reply
  • It’s about time the Government did the job they are elected to and govern the country! Industrial peace is important, but not at any cost. The public sector has been largely insulated from the recession by successive timid governments afraid to take on the unions. Finally, thanks to the Troika’s most recent report, meaningful public sector reform is back on the table. And the response from the public sector unions? Thinly-veiled threats of industrial action, especially from sections of the public service for whom it is illegal to engage in such industrial action. Yes politicians are paid too much, and they therefore lack the moral authority to impose cuts, but the State is broke. The public sector are either unable or unwilling to grasp the basic economic fact: there can be no public sector without a private sector (i.e. taxes to pay public sector salaries), but there can be a private sector without a public one. The State does not create jobs, merely the environment in which jobs may be created. It’s about time the Government represented its 4.5 million citizens and not just the usual 300,000 public sector! See Dan O’Brien’s article – http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0914/1224324008263.html

    Reply
  • Alien8 18/02/13 #

    €1.2 billion in savings, less workers and services and yet public spending goes up. Go figure.

    (NB: there were no savings, just accounting fixes. Something Ireland Inc think they are good at, but aren’t)

    Reply
  • I have some questions for the unions: where should the money come from to meet your demands?

    Whose services should be cut, and whose taxes should increase?

    Or do you expect us to borrow more money?

    Until they answer these reasonable questions, they can expect little sympathy from the non-unionised, private-sector workforce.

    Reply
  • Unions are the antithesis to reality and a return to sensible and sustainable pay levels. Sadly the government won’t have the courage to take them on.

    Reply
  • If we take the entire government budget what percentage are these savings?

    Reply
  • If we take the entire government budget what percentage are the croke park savings?

    Just asking as the Gov have just given all the Youth orgs a 10% cut ( you remember young people – 35% unemployment) and no recourse.

    Something has to budge. Non pay cost savings are taken. So it’s either lose jobs or cut pay. Choice.

    Reply

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