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Dublin: 7 °C Thursday 23 May, 2013

Merkel: EU needs a new Treaty to end debt crisis

Angela Merkel sings from the same hymn sheet as Nicolas Sarkozy, but warns that the euro crisis will take “five years” to solve.

Image: Michael Sohn/AP

GERMANY’S CHANCELLOR Angela Merkel has told her national parliament that she will seek the negotiation of a new EU Treaty in order to impose greater fiscal discipline within the European Union.

Speaking in the Bundestag this morning, Merkel echoed comments given by French president Nicolas Sarkozy, who last night demanded that the EU needed major treaty change in order to fight the continuing debt crisis.

The chancellor and Sarkozy are due to hold a bilateral summit on Monday ahead of next week’s summit of EU heads of government – a summit she said this morning would focus on “treaty changes to avoid splitting the European Union”.

Europe was “on the verge of launching fiscal union”, she said, hailing the “concrete steps” that had already been taken to create a common fiscal government for members of the eurozone – before adding:

We need budget discipline and effective crisis management mechanism. So we need to change the treaties or create new treaties.

Merkel also told the parliament that Europe needed the power to sue member states through the courts if they failed to keep within pre-defined debt and budget limits.

The chancellor warned, however, that there was no ‘easy fix’ to the crisis – and said the solution could “take years.”

The German government has made it clear that the European crisis will not be solved in one fell swoop. It’s a process, and that process will take years.

Merkel insisted, however, that it was “far-fetched” to portray Germany as wanting to lead Europe – and again ruled out eurobonds as a potential solution to the debt crisis, believing them to be a breach of the German constitution.

Merkel also insisted that the European Central Bank had to remain independent of the crisis – potentially showing a split with Sarkozy and the ECB’s president Mario Draghi, who had yesterday left the door open for the ECB to play a larger role in helping to resolve it.

Sarkozy had last night told an audience in Toulon that he would seek a treaty change to “rethink the organisation of Europe” and the euro.

Her comments underline a deepening policy divide between Germany and Ireland, with both Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore vocally opposing treaty change in the past few days – arguing that it would not come quickly enough to fix the crisis.

Kenny had also told the Dáil on Wednesday that he believed exploiting the ECB’s ability to print currency was the only way to end the debt crisis, as only the guarantee of infinite currency could persuade investors to lend to European countries.

Additional reporting by AP

Poll: Does Ireland have a future in the euro?

Read: Sarkozy: We need to rethink Europe to save the euro

More: Gilmore gives strongest hint yet that Ireland opposes EU treaty change

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Comments (72 Comments)

  • Best of luck trying to get 27 countries to agree on that!

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  • At the risk of lots of red thumbs……. Jim Corr predicted this two or three years ago !!!!

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  • Don’t like where this is going.

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  • Not a hope. They want tax harmonisation. They can harmonise the BMW, Porsche, Siemens plants, the coal mines et all. Not a hope i am voting yes to this and if they think it will pass the Irish electorite they are probably right because they will be duped again with falsities on how this treaty will actually effect the country. There needs to be a huge information campaign in this country by non-vested interests before the government can start their pre-referendum softening. Otherwise this country is doomed to be an economic wasteland.

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    • The Germans and French want total control of Europe and the treaty change will go ahead, with no Referendum for the people of Europe, a third of the Eurocrats were never elected by the people and are not accountable to the people and cant be removed by the people, that’s not democracy Europe is turning into a dictatorship like old Communist Russia. have a look on you tube look up Nigel Farage from UKIP you’ll see how how he deals with these un-elected Burocrats and he has stood up for Ireland on numerous occasions and our own elected MEP’S say nothing.

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    • @ Paul. I agree completely. The simple fact of the matter is that Ireland is the only country in the EU that have the power (on paper) to stop this. Politicians are not going to. They stand to lose their cushy european jobs. That is why i say that there needs to be a big campaign to educate the masses about what is being attempted in europe. It has and will always be the endgame of the EU.

      Jean Monnet 1952 : ““The fusion (of economic functions) would compel nations to fuse their sovereignty into that of a single European State.””

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    • I will never vote yes for any treaty with Europe . I voted yes the last time, after voting No in the first vote ,because I got scared. We Irish, are the bottom of the food chain. I will never be duped again.

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  • The though`s of a setup comes to mind, Germany and France failed to get their way with the LB treaty last time, this time round they have created something akin to George Bush and the war on terror which saw him gain a second term against the odds.Dangerous waters, sharks circling sign. The manulipation of this crisis has gone out of control and the Euro looks doomed, it is backfiring on the main players. Like Shane Gleeson, can`t see 27 countries agree on this.

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  • This is not brinkmanship politics as many economists had hoped. It is delusional. I cant see the Euro lasting much longer. Saying it will take 5 years to fix the Euro when it is more like 5 days to its meltdown.

    This is not sensationalist. The failing of most empires is caused by unsustainable debt. If it took down the Roman empire it can destroy a single currency with no political back up. The political leaders of their day always spouted delusional rhetoric becoming more and more detatched with reality. Remember Brian Cowen before the bailout boys came?

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  • Nein, nein, nein,nein, nein,nein,nein!

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    • Europes most successful periphery economy.
      Remained outside the Euro.
      Has cut borrowing, spending and taxation.
      Has seen unemployment in spite of the slowdown.
      http://mobile.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-02/sweden-safer-than-germany-as-crisis-upends-bond-market-logic.html

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    • Are tax and spending cuts A Good Thing in and of themselves? I’m not convinced, not at all convinced.

      Lest we forget, the state stood back and let “the markets” work their “magic” over the past decade, look where it’s gotten us. And look at who’s been called on to clean up a private sector disaster – the state.

      I’m also concerned at what “budget discipline” means in this context – balanced books, not a problem. But limited state spending, public services and redistribution?

      That’s a profound political choice, goes a long way towards defining what kind of society we want. EU intervention in that regard would be unacceptable.

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    • The Germans & French will learn the meaning of “waiting in the long grass” if/when we get to vote on it.

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    • Niall Sweden offers an example of a periphery nation that has managed it’s finances prudently, implemented measures that incentivise economic growth and reduce unemployment while remaining outside the Euro.
      If you have examples of periphery nations that have not managed their finances prudently and the social/economic situation for their citizens is improving I would be interested in finding out about it.

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    • Not my point, Seán – is a low-tax, minimal public services arrangement “prudent” as an end in itself? I’m not sure it is.

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    • Niall, 4 examples of nations that have turned their economic fortunes around via expansionary fiscal contraction.
      There are many more I could post.
      http://mobile.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_17/b4225035005803.htm

      Do you have real world examples of the high spending economic model that you advocate

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    • I notice that Ireland is the second of the examples, there? Setting in train some of the policies that led to our ruin. And I note that Sweden’s government still accounted for 60% of the economy, even after contraction.

      “Fiscal contraction” isn’t as simple as a balancing of the books – it involves further negating government’s ability to check powerful private interests, many of them multi-national. The contraction you’re advocating basically amounts to a hand-over of power from the democratic system, for all its faults, to the private sector, which doesn’t even pretend to care about anything other than profits.

      I can think of one country in particular where the weaknesses of government, eroded and undercut by Reaganomic thinking, have led to disaster, dragging down the rest of the Western world with it.

      Government isn’t the answer, but it’s not the problem either. Unaccountable, “free market” forces need to be checked, and hollowing out the State will have the opposite effect. The New Deal was a necessary response to similar concerns, and worked well for a substantial period of time – it’s time for New Deal II.

      But Finland is a reasonable contemporary example of a comparatively highly taxed country – 23% corporation tax, for one – that’s doing nicely. Interestingly, it seems that they’ve managed to liberalise their economy where it matters, but without sacrificing their public services, employment security, and basic humanity.

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  • “both Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore vocally opposing treaty change in the past few days – arguing that it would not come quickly enough to fix the crisis”

    Or they’re terrified to go to the people …………. they know they haven’t a hope the way people are feeling about them AND Europe at the moment.

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  • Fractional reserve banking has to go. At the minute money is just debt. There are no cash or gold reserves to back it up. This gives banks ultimate power over governments. Bring back the gold standard. Then we will really see who are the rich counties on the world.

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    • Fractional reserve banking is vital for financial intermediation which is a crucial aspect of every economy in the world. It isn’t perfect but the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.

      And you cannot be serious about the gold standard, surely? The amount of gold in the world now is less than the value of money in circulation in the United States alone. There are plenty other schools of thought as to why a return to the gold standard is a bad idea.

      If you did want to end fractional-reserve banking you would have to use a basket of commodities at the very least, not just gold.

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    • Thanks for replying.Conor I think we can agree money must be exchanged on the strength of something not thin air as it is now. All our debts are numbers on a screen for the banks, but if we don’t pay our wages they get real things like our homes and cars. What did the bank have in the beginning to get this so called money to lend us. The system is rigged and must be changed. Lets get a debate going at least

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    • “I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.” — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

      “The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people’s money” — Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

      “From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” — Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

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  • The Germans gradually taking over Europe without the gun so to speak

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  • Not gonna happen

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  • I’m happy to sign the treaty and raise the corporate tax rate….the day after BMW & Siemens etc. open production plants here in Ireland.

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  • Raf 02/12/11 #

    What nobody seems to know—especially those who voted for the Lisbon Treaty—according to the treaty EU is going to be ruled by Germany, France and the UK starting 2014 when “double majority” voting system comes into play. This, now, is just foreplay.

    This is “streamlining of the decision making” for you.

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  • Both Kenny and Gilmore have vocalised opposition to treaty change over the past few days..

    Let’s see how long it takes them to do a U-turn and start pushing a “yes” vote on them..

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    • How many European languages do they speak or read? For a country that sets high praise on learning Irish as a way into Irish culture and history, one would hope that senior politicians are following this advice on language learning regarding at least one major Eurozone country.

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  • They only need the 17 EZ countries to agree but you are correct, there is no time for a Fünf Jahre plan. The reduction of swap rates is a quick fix of EZ banks’ liquidity crisis which was threatening to freeze the interbank lending. But ultimately as Mervyn King said this is not a liquidity crisis but solvency crisis. The crisis will be resolved when the market participants regain confidence that the EZ countries can grow fast enough to repay the debt or when the debt is written off. Short term liquidity boosting measures will provide some breathing time but not much. Ultimately, the EZ will be embarrassed by having to resort to IMF at some stage. The EU leaders have been incapable to resolve this rolling crisis for the last two years.

    My final observation is that the model based on policing the fiscal discipline will remain flawed. There will always be short term fluctuations between EZ countries which cannot be ironed out by policing the fiscal discipline. In case Germans forgot, they were actually the first one to break the agreed currency stability criteria while some of the ‘unruly’ countries (like for example Ireland) were fully compliant up to the 2007/2008 crisis. The mechanism of policing the budgetary discipline proposed by Merkel would have found Ireland fully compliant in 2007 and it is hard to see what action would have been taken in 2007 to prevent the budget deficit from exploding in 2008. And the idea that the mechanism which would enable EU to sue the countries which go over the debt limits is ludicrous. What possible good would be derived from an EU law-suit against a country which has fallen to a fiscal shock regardless to whether this is down to internal or external factors? How would an EU lawsuit against Ireland in 2008 solve anything?? The only way to manage short term fluctuations is through federal redistribution mechanisms and if the Germans prefer to continue to benefit from the exports facilitated by the EZ they will have to come to the terms with the need to have such a federal transfer mechanism.

    I have little hope, however, this will come to fruition. Most likely outcome is the IMF supported bailout and realignment of EZ by shedding the periphery. This would be to the benefit of all because it is clear that there is no trace of the much touted solidarity in the House of Europe. Only bickering.

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  • chickens home to roost. When Europe gets hold of the right to supervise our tax laws there will be a party in Brussels…. Why do people expect anything different? Let them eat cake.

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  • Raf 02/12/11 #

    Germany is the biggest exporter in Europe. When you’re doing well in exports, your currency appreciates, which in turn hurts exports—your goods are more expensive for your buyers.
    With Euro being a mix of good and bad economies, it does not appreciate much, even when Germany’s exports do well. This is how Germany benefits from the Euro.

    Ever since the Greek crisis, German exports soared as the Euro took a hit.
    It is in the best German interest for Irish economy to be doing not too well.

    Thing is, they need weak economies in the Eurozone to keep the Euro cheap.
    They don’t need competing exporters with low corporate taxes around.

    The first thing they will do with the new Treaty is “harmonize taxation” which will send the multinational companies with their jobs away from Ireland.

    They want Ireland to stay struggling and uncompetitive. Why do you think they ordered Enda to raise VAT?

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  • All Merkel needs is a little moustache.

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  • So Long, fair well, auf wiedersein , goodnight . Adieu, adieu to ye and ye and ye. Lot’s of love. x The EU

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  • So they are going to enforce (and enforce they will – if they have to yet again make us re-vote a few times) another treaty to make us sign up even tighter to Germany, France and the rest of the big boys?
    They can get stuffed!

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  • Angela – what Europe needs is you to get your head out of your arse and realise this is a CRISIS. As such, it needs an immediate response, not lofty idealist ambitions which people struggling to pay bills really dont care about. Fix it first – then we can talk about prevention of repeat problems.

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  • Raf 02/12/11 #

    “both Enda Kenny and Eamon Gilmore vocally opposing treaty change in the past few days”

    “Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.”
    —Otto von Bismarck

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  • Can’t help but wonder where we would be if we hadn’t bailed out the banks and taken that bailout ourselves last year!

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    • Raf 02/12/11 #

      Where? Iceland didn’t bail out their banks and is doing all right now, this is where Ireland would have been now.

      Lenihan lied to the public saying the banks were holding Irish money. It was mostly German and other foreign investors who had calculated their risk in the first place and should have been burnt instead of the taxpayer.

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    • For fear of repeating myself….iceland had its own currency, they could devalue. But I agree, I would love to know what would have happened of we let them sink. Wish they had.

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  • It’s not going to happen, the British are not going to go with and we are not going to go with it. Britain in fact are wanting Europe to have less control, and if our government even try it they may find another country to live in. Food for thought the Germans tried to rule Europe with two failed world wars now they are trying to rule it through democracy this but like the two worlds wars it WILL fail i am confident of that

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  • Ahhh piss off Merkel, getting sick of looking at your ugly mug and listening to your fucking crap….. Germany weren’t saying that when the European Union was formed and they hadn’t got a pot to piss in.

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  • You know when you get a song stuck in your head and it won’t go away….Deutschland, Deutschland über alles…aghhh!

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    • Wonder what Amhrán na bhFiann will sound like after we’ve had to translate it into our new masters’ language(s)?

      And Sarky had another go last night at our corporation tax….. He’s determined to get his hands on it…. He wants Google / Facebook / etc to go to Paris not some li’l ol’ peripheral island………….

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  • Rob 02/12/11 #

    i’m at a bit of a loss here.

    we the country of “we have money so we’ll spend it” are objecting to someone else offering us advice on budgetary policy???

    i don’t think anyone is advocating handing the keys to Brussels – but lets not pretend we haven’t already de facto done so by way of the bail out! so theres very little point getting up on our high horse now!

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    • Hahaha, Their financial institutions are one of the major players in banking fraud and created most of the toxic-fake derivatives that created the global crash to begin with.
      All we need is debt-jubalee, the punt. A constitutional ammendment making it impossible to transfer private debt to national debt wouldnt go astray either. Add articles 47/48 back into our constition to ensure politicians are held accountable for their actions and we are sorted.
      Ecconomy would start growing again as the punts initial low value in comparison to the euro would boost job creation and outside investment. Thats why Merkil hates that idea. Its also why she hates our corporation tax and increased our VAT.
      She wants what jobs we have left to move to Germany.

      Think about it for a second, we nationalized private debt. When we have the oppurtunity to decrease that debt by simply wrighting off the debt which is shared between two countries we are told we cant because its private debt. We are paying it but cant manage it. We can’t lower it. All of the actions of France and germany have lead to our debt increasing not decreasing and they always said that it would solve the debt issue once and for all.

      We are at the point were we have to grow a pair and say no. Something cant be public and private at the same time and if you have no interest in letting us decrease our national debt then you can feck off. Its not like they have anything worthwhile anyway. Dell moved to china because there was no rare earth materials for manufacturing within the Eurozone after china’s trade embargo.
      No rare earth materials, no electronics manufacturing, no jobs.
      But hey, maybe you should listen to the guys who told you that signing on to the lisbon treaty would create jobs and help companies like Dell come back to Ireland. The guys who left out the fact that they paid Dell to move to Poland and that Dell moved to china due to lack of materials in Europe.
      They are either stupid or just plain deceptive, don’t fall for their crap again.

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  • If we hadn’t already sold our soul to bail out the bankers leaving the IMF running the country, becoming part of a French and German super state would bother me more! What are the options left available to us?? I’m really regretting getting rid of all my punts.

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  • I, for one, welcome our new European overlords.

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  • This has been on the table since the EEC, they have been waiting on the economic conditions to be just right. As long as our chief gobshite & all his mini gobshites negotiate aggressively I don’t think it’s such a bad thing.

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  • Because many Irish politicians are ignorant monocultural and monolingual types (I discount Gaelic) dyed inside out with a narrow conservative Roman Catholicism, their capacity to see the European project as anything other than a generous slot machine filled by gullible Northern Europeans is extremely limited. If the elected politicians display a cynical disregard for the higher political values motivating European union, can chunks of the electorate be blamed for emulating them? After the last treaty was rejected and then passed, the Dail convened some sort of committee to inquire into the debacle. Is there any evidence that whatever came out if that exercise has been taken in board by the government?

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    • Doubt it. The report its probably gathering dust on a shelf somewhere.

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    • Well down Magari, you didn’t bring up the sloping negroid foreheads of the Seltic people either. Your attitude belongs in a Europe of a hundred years ago, whatever way you dress it up.

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    • Adam,
      Your summation of the character of the typical Irish politician corresponds exactly with mine. Where we differ though is whereas you contend that the electorate emulate them, I believe that the opposite is the case.
      The character of the successful politician reflects the character of the corresponding voters – you can see this on a region by region or urban/rural comparison.
      And as for the slot machine analogy, you couldn’t have put it better. I will go further to say that our forestry, fishing, agriculture and divers natural resources were the stakes put up for the opportunity to pull the handle and hope for the best by these narrow-minded, monolingual, monocultural backwoodsmen.
      Personally I don’t hold with this fear of our punt being almost worthless against a new ‘super Euro. The true value of the currency of any independent nation is not based primarily on the markets but on the quality of the nations resources and workforce and the corrosponding value that that brings to its currency. A real valuation of a national currency is not of some market traders making but the result of the value that a nation puts on it’s own people (workforce) and resourses and the type of Government it elects.
      We need to see an end to the typical cap-in-hand, forelock tugging, cutehoor, gombeen politician before we can stand among nations as the country that was once dreamed of.

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    • I’ve just reread it. It sounds like a speech! Anyway…

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  • random 02/12/11 #

    “Infinite currency”, LOL.

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  • I read today that Finland could a new version of the Markka up and running by February if the Old Euro is discontinued 31 December ….. They are preparing to convert morgages etc …… This is Northern European Reality …… not moaning about being in or out or who “we ” will vote for.
    Having lived in Europe for almost 40 years I see now that most Europeans would like to see England out of EU and with border control …. Germany & France are trying to salvage what is left of an Ideal that grew from the Benelux free trade area – Trade equals prosperity so it worked until certain countries decided it was a Goose who layed golden eggs and got carried away ….. Goose is now on last legs and and we get the Brits and quasi brits remembering “The War” …… which is now totally irrelevant because if this goes belly up we are all fucked !
    Getting back to the punt will be hilarious – let’s be honest – the shower in Dublin could not organize a piss up in a brewery unless they are getting huge bonusses and pensions…..
    Do you guys seriously think that Irish luxury cheeses etc will find a market in a recession – remember other people are broke too – so everybody will be looking for value for money ……. and ( bugbear of mine ) since when > all you tv chefs and cooks < could you still buy cheap cuts of meat in stores – maybe in a quality butcher where it is more expensive than steak in a supermarket ….? for donkey's years all the offal and cheap bits have been going , together with mechanically rendered ? meat into ready made meals and snax…….
    I buy a liter of yoghurt in europe for the price of a poxy little jar hier – that prides itself on being the best …. sez who…..?
    This is a train crash about to happen and running around being smart arsed is not going to help – If Ireland was that smart they would be above the cut when it splits …….

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  • Neil 02/12/11 #

    So I guess the deal will be Eurobonds, i.e. our debts become Germanys debts, and borrowing is cheap for us, for treaty changes. The treaty changes will no doubt include coporation tax rates.

    We’re never going to vote for that. So we need to know what it means. Do we then have the leave the euro? Does the bailout money from the ECB stop thereby forcing us to default and leave the euro?

    If the euro still exists, then it will be a stronger currency than ever. It will be the currency of the strongest European economies only.

    Many people in Ireland will demand that they have contracts specifying wages in euros, so they will demand they are still paid in euro.
    .
    If Ireland leaves the euro for a new punt, then the value of it compared to euro could be tiny.,

    Ideally there must be a negotiated settlement for “slower speed” eurozone countries. Something that does not happen overnight.

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    • Eurobonds are not going to happen in the next few years. They will not pass the German courts, until their constitution is changed.

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    • Maybe you should ask where did the money go? Who bet it? Who’s money did they bet? How will a European bond system end the recession? How can piling debt onto more debt reduce debt? Who benefits from the debt growth strategy that has been used thus far to ” end debt crises ” ?
      Why they want to have the ECB control Irish finances? How will more debt from the ECB help us in any way?
      If we left the euro and went back to the punt it wouldn’t hold as much value as the euro but that would attract more outside investment into the country which would lead to a quick recovery and jobs and a strong punt.
      If they change the treaty they will pile more debt from private bets onto you. They have stated that our corporation tax is unfair which essentially means that what jobs we have now will be guaranteed to move to countries like France and Germany leaving us even more worse of than we are now.
      People need to wake up, they raided your bank accounts. Now they are raiding our tax system because the banks are dry. They think they are entitled to your money and usually fool you into believing that its the old women who needs a hip replacement that is the entitlement one.
      Children that arent born yet already have debt over their heads, how is that fair. Are they not entitled to a clean slate.
      RTE make comparisons between the occupy movement and protesting a shoe store for free shoes. Your journalists are incompetent and allowing you to be robbed. They are sitting in front of us on national telivision complaining that they dont know what protesters want even after they drove past several times. How about they do their jobs. Get out of their expensive cars and talk to normal people. There jounalists for gods sake.
      They are all laughing and you are the joke.

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  • Her country is already in it Raf – they have just managed to hide it by blaming the old stereotypes.

    Reply

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