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Dublin: 11 °C Wednesday 22 May, 2013

“Disgrace”: More than 16,000 waiting 4+ years for outpatient appointment

Minister for Health Dr James Reilly said today that changes are being made to ensure that by the end of next year, no one will wait more than a year.

Minister for Health Dr James Reilly
Minister for Health Dr James Reilly
Image: Eamonn Farrell/Photocall Ireland

MINISTER FOR HEALTH Dr James Reilly has responded to the release of a new report from the Health Service Executive (HSE) about the length of time patients are waiting to be seen at clinics.

“Activity levels have to come back to the norm,” said the Minister, who told RTÉ’s Six One News that waiting times for day treatment and inpatient treatment had dropped. RTÉ has a copy of the report on its website.

The Minister said that more than 16,000 people have been waiting four years or more to be seen at an outpatient clinic, and that this is a “disgrace”.

He said that by the end of next year no one will wait more than a year for their first appointment.

The provisional figure at the moment of people waiting to be seen at outpatient departments is around 340,000. When all of the hospitals have submitted their data, Minister Reilly said it is expected the total number of outpatients waiting will stand at around 360,000.

For the first time we have an accurate figure that we can work on. For the first time now we know the size of the problem.

Budget

The HSE reported a gross vote expenditure deficit of €270m at the 31st August, saying that on an accruals expenditure basis, the July figures contained in the performance report show a deficit of €350.9m.

There is therefore no underlying reduction in the rate of  expenditure across the business units of the HSE. Hospitals are running a deficit of €179.6m, Community Drug Schemes €121.9m and Community Services €66.3m.

Speaking on Six One News, Minister Reilly said that reduced budgets don’t mean less people being treated.

The two hospitals that currently have the highest numbers of patients waiting longer than twelve months are Tallaght Hospital and Our Lady’s Children’s Hospital Crumblin. They along with six other hospitals account for 68.6 per cent of the national total of 226,135 patients who are waiting 12-48+ months.

Minister Reilly said that the HSE will approach the issue the same way it approached the people waiting on trolleys and the way it approached in-patient treatment.

He said the people who wait the longest will be treated first, and “by the end of next year, we will have no one waiting a year”.

Minister Reilly said that he was glad his colleagues said they had confidence in him at last night’s debate on a motion of no confidence in the Health Minister.

VIDEO: Róisín Shortall’s not-so-ringing endorsement of James Reilly

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Comments (69 Comments)

  • “No one will wait more than a year” !!! Unbelievable – I hope they aren’t ill.

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  • I see he’s taken to doing stand up comedy too

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  • A year!
    You could be dead and buried, had an aniversary at that rate!
    With all the money been thrown at the health service, question must be asked ‘where is it going’.

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  • I don’t know what’s worse here, what he’s doing to the Health Service in Ireland or that he’s beginning to believe his own bullshit.
    I know in my local hospital they have lost 25% of their lab staff, this WILL have an effect Minister, or do you seriously think they were unneeded? They are loosing a similar amount of radiographers too and with waiting times for X-Rays currently at 3 months this is expected to double, you can just imagine the suffering this will cause, by the time people will get their X-Rays it’ll be too late. It’s the same story in every disipline I spoke to in the hospital. Their A&E Department is the busiest in the country, so busy that they had to beg recently to be allowed to come off line, they had so many chronically ill patients urgently in need of treatment but no beds for them, nowhere to treat them. At one stage patients were being treated on the floor, patients lives were put at risk and I understand staff begged for their patients, they wanted to close the A&E. For political reasons, they were told under no circumstances could it close. They got lucky, nobody died. This time. Luck won’t last, this fool will cause the deaths of people. Nobody seriously believes that this time next year everything will be alright with our Health Service, we all know, everyone in the country, that this time next year it will be a lot worse unless there is a major intervention. It starts with getting rid of James Rielly.

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    • Rusty Balls .
      What annoys me is the fact that so many people believe his Bs too… They can not see the damage they are perpetuating through FF mismanagement and downright crooked deals…. The sad thing is that FG know what they are doing and are doing it on purpose. Crazy !

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  • Key phrase here is “Nobody will wait more than a year for there first apointment”, not nobody will wait more than a year, your first out patient apointment can be nothing more than seeing the hospital Doctor for him to do nothing but confirm what you probably already know from your GP who referred you.

    Its a disgrace, I waited 9 months for a outpatient apointment because of a ingrowing toe-nail, my GP told me it would have to be removed. 9 months later a Doctor in the out-patient department told me the exact same thing and then put me on another waiting list..tbh the thoughts of a bottle of whiskey and a pliers did spring to mind, that was 8 months ago and I have not even got a letter with a new apointment yet.

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    • I know Derek its awful isn’t it!! Hope you get it sorted soon… painful that .. Breaks my heart to see the country this way….

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    • I take out in growing toenails, the vast majority of my colleagues don’t because we get €24 for doing minor surgeries for medical card patients. Minus anesthetic, needles, sutures, etc it works out at about €7 for a procedure.
      The current system forces GPs to be medical clerks and refer everything into hospital when we could do so much more at a fraction of the hospital cost. The system basically stops GPs from providing services. The HSE refuses all changes due to vested interests.

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  • ah sure it´s only a year

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  • convienient that it was released today after the vote last night…no confidence James!

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  • Is Reilly a clone of Brendan Grace including the voice but not in any way funny.

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  • I moved to work in the UK. Am a surgical specialist where we have to see all referred patients within 13 weeks or suffer a massive fine. Needless to say we don’t get fined and manage to see all patients within that time. Am embarrassed for O’Reilly that 12 months is his aspiration.

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    • Its a disaster Thomas, while he aspires to this its nothing more than a device to buy time, we all know it cannot be achieved, certainly not with the recent cutbacks. I’m waiting 5 years for a surgical procedure and I’m not alone, there are plenty of others waiting a lot longer.

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  • “no body will have to wait more than a year”
    If this is confidence in a minister than we should be ashamed of ourselves for still believing that this continuity FF/ stickies/DL/Workers party/labour government can run this country.

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    • Werejammin
      Where did you get the idea of saving three hundred million from generic drugs when their price is set by the HSE and Department of Health at three per cent below branded originals. Don’t take my word for it……look up the sites of the two Bodies . So ….your turn…..where did you get the figure?

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  • Speaking on Six One News, Minister Reilly said that reduced budgets don’t mean less people being treated.

    Yeah I’d believe that alright.

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    • I hope for Dr. O’Reilly’s sake that the lady that was on 6/1 News Ms. Dennis 73 years old, is still alive in 2013 when she can finally get to her appointment, not even the operation, but just the appointment. She’s already had cancer and suffers with rheumatism etc. Hopefully, when the time comes for her appointment, that it is not cancelled because of the lack of staff and/or beds closed off. Good luck with that.

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    • Hi Sheila , that lady Ms Dennis ‘ appointment is for January 2014 …. longer again . Disgraceful really !

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  • You really couldn’t make this up. I don’t know whether to laugh with hysteria, or cry that everything seems to be an utter shambles with this government.

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  • He says …. ” that by the end of next year no one will wait more than a year for their first appointment.” something to aspire to alright .Well done there jimmy boy !
    So you go to the doctor with a lump on your back , your doc gives you a letter for a specialist and you finally get an appointment for twelve months ….Way to go there Reilly . Lots of confidence inspiration there .
    Funny how this deplorable report came out today after he won that vote of no confidence against him. ,But lap it all up because we as a nation are idiots to be taking this B S …
    We are worse off now than ever we were and the politicians will not listen to us .

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    • Eileen
      This is my second ever comment on the Journal and I think most of your comments over the last year are a disgrace.
      I recently had a heart attack and was in hospital within an hour and stented within a further half an hour while another condition has been dealt with speedily and efficiently in Tallaght Hospital over the past three years.
      Waiting lists of four years for conditions such as arthritis and minor surgery could not be blamed on somebody in office for a little over a quarter of that time period but they are caused by doctors who don’t refer a patient with an Urgent request and with Consultant who up to this week only work thirty three hours between Monday and Friday.
      You might give Reilly his due for huge improvements in the trolley situation and for the change in Consultants terms where they have to work nights and weekends now.
      Instead you sound like a supporter of another Party and come our mealy mouthed and mean spirited.

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    • Paddy Rodgers
      I am so glad you are doing so well after being so ill and I wish you well for the future . You are of course entitled to your opinion as am I .:-) Take care :-)

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    • I wasn’t talking about opinions in my contribution if you read it. I was giving you facts that suggest you are complaining for political purposes rather than being objective.
      There appears to be a group of you that dive onto political stories only and have very nasty comments to make without any facts to support you.
      Are you politically active Eileen and do you support either the ULA or Sinn Fein?

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    • You should not be worrying about what my political affiliations are or are not, Mark , Because they are entirely none of your business . Have a really nice day !

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    • Mark my words………. A Sinn Feiner…..

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    • Ha ha …. Paddy you flatter me !

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  • Been on a public waiting list since 2008. Finally paid to go private and was seen within a month. Says it all about our health system really.

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  • Third paragraph – he speaks as if this shambles is nothing at all to do with him. It makes me sick.

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  • Tommy 20/09/12 #

    Despair.

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  • My 80 year old dad, recently suffered a stroke in early August,he’s home now doing ok, but is having major trouble with his waterworks, doesn’t feel the urge to go with the result being that he wets himself constantly. His GP gave us a letter for the local hospital, duly brought it in and waited and waited and waited. Rang the urology dept on sept 9 and explained the situation- secretary told me that an appointment had been made for him in, wait for it ,Sept 17 …..2013! And she actually told me that this particular consultant doesn’t respond to ‘urgent’ letters from Gp’s and that perhaps I should “take him somewhere else”. Nice one Mr O Reilly.

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    • Is it that bad ? Jesus….

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    • My Dad age 60 waited 19 months to have a large amount of stones removed from his bladder. The urology ward he was kept in after the op was top notch though really state of the art ward in St.vincents, private room , touch screen tv, wifi!! Shame h had to wait so long to get there and shame that not all wards are so clean and up to date as the one he finally got into. I hope your Dad makes a recovery fast

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    • Jayne, I’m not suggesting you do this you understand, but if you were to wait untill your dad was particularly bad, say he had a flu too, then call an ambulance for him. Allow them to see him wetting himself, don’t clean him up first. I know what this will mean. The result will be that he will likely be that he should be admitted and the process should be kick started. I say may and should as these days nothing is certain.

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  • All i can say is god bless the NHS – people moan about it at times but its a system that while it has its flaws it works!

    Reporting a 2bn surplus for 2011/12

    Max of 16 weeks for any service

    I think the hse needs to look at their system because clearly their system is not working!

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  • the most important thing is paying the unsecured bond holders. making sure the unions get their way and the politicians get their perks and big juicy pensions when they get out of the Dail having left a mess behind them! we keep voting in one set of idiots and then replace them with more clowns.

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  • I was refered to the surgical assesment ward of the regional hospital Limerick by my gp in july with adominal pain. This subsided and i was sent home and put on a waiting list for a scan. Had scan in nov and radiographer told me i had galstones. Was then put on a waiting list to see consultant for treatment. In early jan 2011 I was brought to a and e in agony with what turned out to be pancreatitus caused by galstones. Was told by doctors that i would definitely have my galbladder removed within 6 weeks. In early march i was readmitted with pancreatitus again. At this stage i got on an emergency list and had my op. Only because I begged not to be sent home to be readmitted a few weeks later with the same problem and explained that i had a young.baby at home.
    I got a phone call in June 2011 from st johns admission dept asking if i was coming in for my op as a private or public patient.

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  • Aarum 20/09/12 #

    Mary Harney certainly deserves the huge pension, in fairness the mess FF left the health system in is shockin

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  • If primary care was properly funded many of the patients on those waiting lists could be dealt with without going near to the hospitals. But the minister wants GPs to do this work for nothing, on top of their own workloads.

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    • Celtic Lady
      The average GP no longer makes house calls and they no longer work week ends and they no longer carry out minor procedures in their surgeries but they make more than a quarter of a million each per year. You’re talking simple garbage and it’s leaking from the corners of your mouth.
      The Minister need to impose the same conditions on GP’s that he has on Consultants. He doesn’t need to invest any more in Primary Care. That’s the problem with people like you just stupidly thinking that more money fixes every thing. The current problems were CAUSED by too much money….and no thinking!

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  • Could it be that the resistance to change was greater than he thought? Reilly believed that as a member of the profession he could call in a few favours here and there and all would be OK. But the government and the HSE in particular are inefficient, outdated, stacked full of cronyism and completely resistant to change. You just have to look at the statement from the surgeon in the case of the child for mouth surgery – ‘if I knew she was a private patient…………’ Pretty much says it all for health service in this country doesn’t it? I’d love to know O’Reilly’s thoughts on that but unfortunately they are probably different to the ‘party line’ so he won’t make them public!

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  • Patitas 21/09/12 #

    The strategy of the HSE is very clear…they hope that “dead” will eventually clear those waiting lists…

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  • So the over run is 270 million. that’s less than half of one payment to the bankers !!!! .
    Seems reilly has his priorities right and kenny (the lack of capital letters are intentional as I do not view these as important and have no respect for them) and the rest of his rotten to the core lackies actually defended the so called (ill)health minister .
    I wonder how many people will die or go beyond help because of this clown.

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  • FF coudn’t get the health system in this country right when they had buckets of money to throw at it so what chance have they now?

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    • They could start with stopping paying out money we DO NOT OWE !

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    • Eileen, whilst I agree with you in principle, in this instance you are wrong. You can’t drag the “burn the bond holders/ it’s not our debt” argument into this one.

      As was proven by FF/PD’s/ Green Party, throwing money at the HSE does not solve the problem. It only makes it worse.

      What is really needed, as in all areas of the Public Service, is root and branch reform.

      If we were to give the HDE/ Department of Health even more money, I fear it would be just another case of throwing good money after bad.

      Ask pretty much any junior to level Civil Servant, and they will be able to give first hand examples of the waste, level of inefficiency, cronyism, clock watching and number punching that goes on. For a lot of the good Public Service staff, it’s disheartening.

      And no, I’m not a Public Service worker. I just feel that the government are doing little to stop the public sector/ private sector divide that is deepening at the minute. And even less to tackle the endemic problems within the Public Sector.

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  • One thing we can guarantee is that very few Fine Gael or Labour TD’s will have to wait four years for treatment . As usual those who are least affected by the cuts to health, education and social services are the loudest in their calls for continuing the cuts agenda.

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  • Putting a doctor in charge of the health service is like putting Hindley and Brady [maybe even our Brady] in charge of a children’s home!

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  • Just the same as the rest of them; all talk and no trousers.

    None of them can do their job.

    They filled the public with lies, lies and more lies so they would get to where they are and now they are walking over each and every citizen of Ireland.

    The constitution says “all powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive under god, from the people and it provides for a democratic parliament and government to exercise the legislative and executive powers, respectively, and for an independent judiciary to exercise the judicial power”

    ” in it’s fundamental rights it guarantees the individual citizen freedom, EQUALITY and justice”

    All I’m seeing them doing is take more and more money off the Irish citizens while they sit back with the bankers and have a good laugh at our expense.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/supporting-the-irish-nation-step-down-from-government

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  • Let’s blame FF sure that’s what the government continues to do.

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  • Private health care. Around 12 euro a week. You take your life in you’re hands with the hse. Isn’t your life worth 12 euro ?

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  • Where is crumblin?

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  • Everything is always deferred to a later date. They are incapable of doing anything NOW.

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  • October 2010.. Training for triathlon , tore my supraspinatus….. Went to local GP, referral for MRI, April 2011 MRI… yes Mr O’Shea you have a slight tear in the medial part of your supraspinatus, referral to Consultant… October 2011, Hi Mr O’Shea I am Dr Z, you have a tear in your supraspinatus , we will have to operate ” ok Doc, When” waiting list is a little over a year, oh right but I have private health insurance , deadly says Doc, will fit you in end of month… Health insurance company ” sorry Mr O’Shea but your not covered ( Phuket you VHI) letter arrived yesterday… Pre op chitty chat, op due in January..

    That will be two years plus, the tear has healed itself but scar tissue leaves me in slight pain…

    In fairness my problem is minor compared to others but what a shambles

    PS anytime you go to Tullamore Hospital , you will see all types wandering around with clipboards , chatting and laughing whilst scores are waiting to be seen, there are huge problems within the HSE , admin everywhere scratching there arses and just to finish, I was seen by 4 different surgeons on each occasion but the main man popped in each of the four times to rubber stamp whatever the juniors had said AND he administered 3 steroid injections into the shoulder, my point, what the fluck were the others there for, when the had to be overseen at every occasion .

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    • Micheal 21/09/12 #

      Key phrase is “rubber stamp”. If you think waiting lists are long as teams are constructed now? Remove the juniors – Angola Healthcare will be taken to a whole new level.

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  • “Crumblin” ha ha oh deat

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  • Timing of report is suspicious, the day after vote of no confidence was done, coincidence I think not

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  • The other issue is that lack of adequate access to primary care and specialist outpatient services is more likely to cause a person to end up getting extremely ill and presenting to the hospital as an emergency via A&E.

    This kind of thing is one of the reasons why we have an A&E and patients on trolleys crisis.

    The problems in the health services in Ireland seem to be structural and organisational rather than lack of financial resources.

    It’s pretty worrying that even during the boom, with vast resourced available the health ‘system’ was a mess. As the funding tightens, it’s not going to be able to cope.

    It needs far more radical restructuring than its getting. At this stage it needs redesigning from the ground up!

    It could be excellent but, nobody’s prepared to be radical enough to tackle vested interests, broken structures and lack of organisation and just do what’s necessary to put it right.

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    • David
      It is excellent for some specialties like cardiology and oncology. Everyone that enters hospital with chest pain gets Rolls Royce treatment whether they are Public or Private patients. The real problem is in the other big areas such as Diabetes Arthritis and Geriatrics. Many patients are over treated and there is no incentive to treat them at the Primary Care level. General Practitioners are just clerks….shuffling patients onto waiting lists without dealing with them locally.
      Make the GP’s contract like the newly imposed Consultant one and give them targets for reducing referrals by treating locally in a variety of diseases and the waiting lists will shrink. Remember the GP is currently paid a lump sum for each patient on her books whether she sees them or not………what madness is that?

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  • Soooo tempted to send this article to Obama. Something for folks in the USA to look forward to!

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  • Maybe Reilly and the civil servants need to look at how the change was brought about in Britain when the National Health there was started.

    One obvious problem is that people are kept in hospital sometimes for weeks waiting for the consultants to turn up to inspect them and agree that they are now well enough to go home. We need to get rid of the whole ‘consultant’ nonsense, and have hospital doctors who are State employees paid a normal salary and who can use the machinery such as PET scanners that’s been paid for by the State.

    Then any doctor who wishes to be a private consultant could do so – but buy his own PET scanner etc, or get together with other private consultants to buy this equipment, without getting subvention from the State.

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